Obama on guns. Viral vid
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07-06-2016, 09:24 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 08:37 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(06-06-2016 11:46 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Yes but anyone can buy one, gun buying laws are way more strict than sword buying laws. Swords do not even require a background check. Same as throwing stars. My point being there are other lethal, designed to kill options other than guns but people are only worried about guns instead of the people that use them. Fine to regulate them but only doing that is not going to dramatically reduce violence because there is always another option.
A sword is an ancient killing device that is far less efficient than a firearm. Statistically speaking it is not really a problem to worry about. But yeah, you can't just walk around with large blades either.

My biggest thing is the detachment from the killing process with a gun. A sword kill requires a strong arm motion or sometimes a full body motion (with follow through) and you have to physically feel your blade penetrate and slice through your victim. That's an entirely different experience than squeezing a trigger. I personally believe the ease of killing promotes killing in a unique way. i.e. I think many people who use guns to kill would NOT use a different tool that required more effort (and was slower, and was less likely to be successful) if they did not have a gun available to them. Of course this is just opinion.

I want to agree with you and for the most part I do but here in Britain where guns are not readily available youngsters and gangbangers carry blades a lot and stabbings are horribly frequent.
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07-06-2016, 09:35 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 09:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 08:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  The .380 isn't all that anemic - it's in the same ballpark as .38 Special.
I sometimes carry a .380 - a stainless Sig P230. It is noticeably heavier that the same piston in blued steel. Consider

Another carry gun is the Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal - lots of punch, small package.

327 Federal is a stretched .32 H+R mag..... If you think H+R mag is expensive -- wait til you buy .327 Federal --- if you can find it... I have the feeling it's going to go the way of .357 Maximum.... (Huh?? .357 what?? -- Exactly)..
I wanted something larger than a .380 and smaller than a .45, so settled on a Ruger LC9S Pro, 9mm. I generally carry in a DeSantis belt pouch, but I also use a Deep Conceal harness, a pocket holster or a regular belt holster, depending on the occasion.

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07-06-2016, 09:44 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
I also think that as members of a "free" society we're not only endowed with Rights, but with corresponding Responsibilities. We do a great deal of hemming and hawing about government over-reach as it relates to our rights, but not much self-examination about whether or not we're living up to our responsibilities to each other and society in general. One certainly COULD make a reasonable argument that inherent within the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms is a responsibility to serve in a militia. The 2nd Amendment was as much about avoiding funding a federal army and leaving defense to citizen groups as it was about enshrining any right to private gun ownership.

I just think rights go hand in hand with a responsibility to the society that is expected to defend those rights. We have the right to free speech - that should come with a responsibility to develop a researched and educated opinion before spouting off a bunch of bullshit. We have the right to our religious beliefs - that should come with a responsibility to not force those beliefs on others through legislation. We have the right to bear arms - that should come with a responsibility to be properly trained in using that weapon, including the responsibility to make sure it can't fall into the hands of criminals or toddlers.
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07-06-2016, 09:53 AM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2016 09:56 AM by jabeady.)
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 09:15 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I'm a liberal, generally, and to me the "agenda" on guns has never been about coming to "git" them out of the hands of law abiding citizens, it's about trying to find common sense solutions to the epidemic of gun violence, primarily in urban areas.

My issue is, no one ever defines "common sense solutions to the epidemic of gun violence." It seems they just want to pass more laws, any laws, knowing full - well that the people who commit gun crimes aren't going to follow those laws.

You want to pass a law, fine. I will vote for any law that 1) is not likely to be overturned in court, 2) internally spells out *exactly* what it is intended to accomplish and 3) internally spells out *exactly* how the law is expected to accomplish it's purpose.

Just as an intellectual exercise, right here on the forum, how 'bout if someone takes a stab at writing such a law?



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07-06-2016, 10:21 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(06-06-2016 08:35 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(06-06-2016 01:14 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Actually in the latest round of high profile shootings many obtained their guns legally.

So yeah, I'd say we have a gun problem. If you're on a "no fly list" there's zero reason you should be allowed to buy a gun. If you're mentally ill, you shouldn't be able to purchase a gun either. No way no hell, should my autistic spectrum child be allowed as an adult to buy a gun, yet once he turns 18 he can legally do so -- and I couldn't even stop him.

I don't really care if you, Chas or anyone else has one gun or 300 and I don't think the average person gives a crap about YOUR guns either.

While I agree they should be more regulated, especially for mental health. The problem is just replace guns with cars, but no one would say we have a car problem even though car crashes are one of the leading causes of death. Whenever someone crashes a car, we look at why they did it. Whether it be alcohol, medical, mechanical etc. yet when it comes to guns, it's always about the guns they used or the fact they used guns. Why they pulled the trigger usually comes after. That's the issue in my opinion. It's fine to regulate them more but also we need to look into why or else it won't be enough.

For repeat drunk drivers, a breathalyzer can be fitted to the ignition of the vehicle. Car simply won't start if they're drunk (in some states depending what they consider impaired -- they might not be drunk).

We've made cars increasingly safer with seat belts, air bags, other restraints...also how crashes occur, is studied to make cars safer.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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07-06-2016, 10:25 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 09:24 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 08:37 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  A sword is an ancient killing device that is far less efficient than a firearm. Statistically speaking it is not really a problem to worry about. But yeah, you can't just walk around with large blades either.

My biggest thing is the detachment from the killing process with a gun. A sword kill requires a strong arm motion or sometimes a full body motion (with follow through) and you have to physically feel your blade penetrate and slice through your victim. That's an entirely different experience than squeezing a trigger. I personally believe the ease of killing promotes killing in a unique way. i.e. I think many people who use guns to kill would NOT use a different tool that required more effort (and was slower, and was less likely to be successful) if they did not have a gun available to them. Of course this is just opinion.

I want to agree with you and for the most part I do but here in Britain where guns are not readily available youngsters and gangbangers carry blades a lot and stabbings are horribly frequent.

That's a good point. We do have a violence problem in the world. I think the issues I've got with guns is that you'd don't have to be within arms reach for them to do what their intended to do.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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07-06-2016, 10:28 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 10:21 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(06-06-2016 08:35 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  While I agree they should be more regulated, especially for mental health. The problem is just replace guns with cars, but no one would say we have a car problem even though car crashes are one of the leading causes of death. Whenever someone crashes a car, we look at why they did it. Whether it be alcohol, medical, mechanical etc. yet when it comes to guns, it's always about the guns they used or the fact they used guns. Why they pulled the trigger usually comes after. That's the issue in my opinion. It's fine to regulate them more but also we need to look into why or else it won't be enough.

For repeat drunk drivers, a breathalyzer can be fitted to the ignition of the vehicle. Car simply won't start if they're drunk (in some states depending what they consider impaired -- they might not be drunk).

We've made cars increasingly safer with seat belts, air bags, other restraints...also how crashes occur, is studied to make cars safer.

I've wondered why breathalyzers don't come standard on new vehicles with it being a felony to remove them.

Nevermind, I know the answer.

"'Cuz fweedom!"

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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07-06-2016, 10:40 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 09:44 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I also think that as members of a "free" society we're not only endowed with Rights, but with corresponding Responsibilities. We do a great deal of hemming and hawing about government over-reach as it relates to our rights, but not much self-examination about whether or not we're living up to our responsibilities to each other and society in general. One certainly COULD make a reasonable argument that inherent within the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms is a responsibility to serve in a militia. The 2nd Amendment was as much about avoiding funding a federal army and leaving defense to citizen groups as it was about enshrining any right to private gun ownership.

I just think rights go hand in hand with a responsibility to the society that is expected to defend those rights. We have the right to free speech - that should come with a responsibility to develop a researched and educated opinion before spouting off a bunch of bullshit. We have the right to our religious beliefs - that should come with a responsibility to not force those beliefs on others through legislation. We have the right to bear arms - that should come with a responsibility to be properly trained in using that weapon, including the responsibility to make sure it can't fall into the hands of criminals or toddlers.

You are correct --- Congress does NOT have the power to maintain a standing army. A navy - yes. But, the 2nd amendment is really about the recognition of one thing --- a government that would have it's populace disarmed - isn't a government worth trusting.

The intent was to have a defensive force (navy) that could repel a foreign invasion always ready - and if we needed to project force (army) then the citizens with firearms would form up - and do the job.......This way, with the guns in the hands of the citizens - it would keep the POWER in the hands of the citizens...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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07-06-2016, 10:43 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 09:44 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I also think that as members of a "free" society we're not only endowed with Rights, but with corresponding Responsibilities. We do a great deal of hemming and hawing about government over-reach as it relates to our rights, but not much self-examination about whether or not we're living up to our responsibilities to each other and society in general. One certainly COULD make a reasonable argument that inherent within the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms is a responsibility to serve in a militia. The 2nd Amendment was as much about avoiding funding a federal army and leaving defense to citizen groups as it was about enshrining any right to private gun ownership.

I just think rights go hand in hand with a responsibility to the society that is expected to defend those rights. We have the right to free speech - that should come with a responsibility to develop a researched and educated opinion before spouting off a bunch of bullshit. We have the right to our religious beliefs - that should come with a responsibility to not force those beliefs on others through legislation. We have the right to bear arms - that should come with a responsibility to be properly trained in using that weapon, including the responsibility to make sure it can't fall into the hands of criminals or toddlers.

Its so encouraging to hear you say that, but after being here for nearly a year I have come to realise that challenging my American friends regarding gun control is a pointless exercise and absolutely guaranteed not to win friends and influence people, but as I'm likely to be removing myself from TTA for personal reasons in the near future I feel comfortable saying that I regard the American love affair with firearms like two people involved in a toxic relationship, I'm pretty sure I have heard every argument / excuse regarding guns and gun violence under the sun and have come to the conclusion that to argue against firearms is utterly pointless its ingrained with over two hundred years of history behind it into the American psyche and besides there are so many guns in circulation now that effective gun control including against criminals is all but impossible. Not only that but I'm not them, I'm a Brit so I just simply do not get this gun culture and who am I to tell them what to do anyway also I cannot take the moral high ground either our murder rate with bladed weapons is sky rocketing. There is no solution things are the way they are. Its just sad to me that you are going to continue to have sandy hook incidents ad infinitum.
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07-06-2016, 10:44 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 09:24 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 08:37 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  A sword is an ancient killing device that is far less efficient than a firearm. Statistically speaking it is not really a problem to worry about. But yeah, you can't just walk around with large blades either.

My biggest thing is the detachment from the killing process with a gun. A sword kill requires a strong arm motion or sometimes a full body motion (with follow through) and you have to physically feel your blade penetrate and slice through your victim. That's an entirely different experience than squeezing a trigger. I personally believe the ease of killing promotes killing in a unique way. i.e. I think many people who use guns to kill would NOT use a different tool that required more effort (and was slower, and was less likely to be successful) if they did not have a gun available to them. Of course this is just opinion.

I want to agree with you and for the most part I do but here in Britain where guns are not readily available youngsters and gangbangers carry blades a lot and stabbings are horribly frequent.
That's a good point. I'm trying to look up the homicide rates in england and it looks like from sep '14 to sep '15 there was only like 574 homicides. That seems rather low. I could look into homicide rate over population, but I don't want to put my energy towards that at the moment. No matter what, violence is an issue. More powerful weapons just makes the issue worse. With guns being as ubiquitous as they are in the US, it's a recipe for disaster.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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