Obama retools his political operation for post-Trump
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09-01-2017, 10:45 PM
RE: Obama retools his political operation for post-Trump
(09-01-2017 10:27 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  It's not about the number of executive orders. Reagan might have more executive orders but the Supreme Court let the majority of them stand because he stayed within the constitution.

It's the scope of executive orders.

Obama has lost 44 cases in the Supreme Court with 9-0 verdicts. Even liberal justices shot him down.

Practically everything he has done has been stopped by the courts because of his executive overreach.

Again, from what I have read, this isn't exactly new or shocking (except perhapse for the unanimity, I haven't found any stats on those). These numbers are similar to those of Bush junior, Reagan and Johnson and bellow that of Bill Clinton who owns the palm in the domain of rejected executive orders. What distinguish Obama's executive orders from those of certain of his predecessors is how vocal he was about using them. It's a bit like gang shooting or illegal immigration. We have the illusion that the situation is getting worse and uncontrolable because we talk more about it, while it's actualy decreasing. Since the last 15 years, I have noticed an increase in popularity for strict constitutionalism which might also help explain why some of Obama's method appeared more "shocking". In resume, Obama wasn't really different in terms of usage of his powers than most President, but American perception of the usage those powers might have changed.

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09-01-2017, 10:48 PM
RE: Obama retools his political operation for post-Trump
(09-01-2017 10:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-01-2017 10:27 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  It's not about the number of executive orders. Reagan might have more executive orders but the Supreme Court let the majority of them stand because he stayed within the constitution.

It's the scope of executive orders.

Obama has lost 44 cases in the Supreme Court with 9-0 verdicts. Even liberal justices shot him down.

Practically everything he has done has been stopped by the courts because of his executive overreach.

But you just said they don't make law. And you were wrong.
Why should anyone listen to ANYTHING you say.
You never said anything about "scope" BEFORE it was pointed out to you you were wrong again.

How EXACTLY are you determining "scope" ?
Oh you don't know.
Why are we not surprised.

And BTW, it was not 44 executive order cases they lost. It was cases in general.
http://rare.us/story/obama-has-faced-mor...president/
Nice try.
More lies and distortions from the Dick Head Lord.

You are clueless. I never brought up the number of executive orders. I said his legacy was his pathetic use of executive orders due to his inability to get things done through congress.

A president is SUPPOSED to run the administrative side. He can administer the law, but CANNOT change the law as written by congress. A recent example was his attempt to change the definition of salary worker and overtime exempt status (as set by congress) and a federal judge shutting him down AGAIN.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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09-01-2017, 10:59 PM
RE: Obama retools his political operation for post-Trump
(09-01-2017 10:27 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  It's the scope of executive orders.

Obama has lost 44 cases in the Supreme Court with 9-0 verdicts. Even liberal justices shot him down.

Practically everything he has done has been stopped by the courts because of his executive overreach.

Right. You dishonest fool. See those THREE sentences. You WERE talking about executive orders.

Quote:U.S. Presidents cannot make law. Trump cannot take 25% from social services as he does not write the budget bills. Only congress could do this, and he could sign it into the law after both houses of congress pass it.

Obama probably would have tried to use an executive order to ADD 25% to social services programs, because that's his usual way to get things done. The anti American way is Obama's legacy.

You tried to make it look like.
1. presidents can't make law. You were totally WRONG.
2. Then you tried to say Obama was unique in issuing executive orders. He wasn't.

At least have the decency to admit it when your are shown to be an ignorant fool.

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09-01-2017, 11:11 PM
RE: Obama retools his political operation for post-Trump
@Bucky Ball

You would be surprised how more likely a person is to admit to have made an error, misrepresented something or be wrong, if you don't insult or shame them for doing so.

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09-01-2017, 11:12 PM (This post was last modified: 09-01-2017 11:19 PM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: Obama retools his political operation for post-Trump
(09-01-2017 10:59 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-01-2017 10:27 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  It's the scope of executive orders.

Obama has lost 44 cases in the Supreme Court with 9-0 verdicts. Even liberal justices shot him down.

Practically everything he has done has been stopped by the courts because of his executive overreach.

Right. You dishonest fool. See those THREE sentences. You WERE talking about executive orders.

Quote:U.S. Presidents cannot make law. Trump cannot take 25% from social services as he does not write the budget bills. Only congress could do this, and he could sign it into the law after both houses of congress pass it.

Obama probably would have tried to use an executive order to ADD 25% to social services programs, because that's his usual way to get things done. The anti American way is Obama's legacy.

You tried to make it look like.
1. presidents can't make law. You were totally WRONG.
2. Then you tried to say Obama was unique in issuing executive orders. He wasn't.

At least have the decency to admit it when your are shown to be an ignorant fool.

The president CANNOT make laws. Not sure what constitution you're reading but it isn't the U.S. Constitution. The president CAN choose how a law is enforced or if it's enforced IF the law is written within the scope of the president's authority. These are rule changes. It's not like a president can add sections and subsections to U.S. Code unless authorized to be changed by the law itself (like drug classifications).

I never once said Obama issued more executive orders than any other president. I said that was his only way to get things done, his preferred method.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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09-01-2017, 11:12 PM
RE: Obama retools his political operation for post-Trump
(09-01-2017 10:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-01-2017 10:27 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  It's not about the number of executive orders. Reagan might have more executive orders but the Supreme Court let the majority of them stand because he stayed within the constitution.

It's the scope of executive orders.

Obama has lost 44 cases in the Supreme Court with 9-0 verdicts. Even liberal justices shot him down.

Practically everything he has done has been stopped by the courts because of his executive overreach.

But you just said they don't make law. And you were wrong.
Why should anyone listen to ANYTHING you say.
You never said anything about "scope" BEFORE it was pointed out to you you were wrong again.

How EXACTLY are you determining "scope" ?
Oh you don't know.
Why are we not surprised.

And BTW, it was not 44 executive order cases they lost. It was cases in general.
http://rare.us/story/obama-has-faced-mor...president/
Nice try.
More lies and distortions from the Dick Head Lord.


If the argument is over whether Obam's executive overreach is more than other presidents, silly arguments about the quantity of executive orders are not the proper comparison. Afterall, an executive order is not in and of itself an overreach--it only becomes an overreach if it is outside the bounds of executive authority, and the courts are the arbiter of what is outside those bounds.

Obama has attempted to implement major policy changes through executive orders that he has found blocked by the courts, at times with harsh criticism coming from both liberal and conservative justices. Examples that come to mind are:
--immigration orders....unconstitutional
--packing the National Labor Relations Board....unconstitutional
--rewriting minimum wage laws...unconstitutional

I cannot think of similar examples from other presidents in my living memory--maybe such examples exist and you guys can bring them up here. Obama has claimed he has a right to implement major policies through executive order due to congress not acting, but the president does not have this right. Liberals will be glad that precedent setting cases brought against the Obama admin have firmed up the separation of powers that we rely on to keep power abusing presidents in check. Too bad liberals (outside of the court system) did not care about this issue during the Obama admin.
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09-01-2017, 11:13 PM
RE: Obama retools his political operation for post-Trump
(09-01-2017 11:11 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @Bucky Ball

You would be surprised how more likely a person is to admit to have made an error, misrepresented something or be wrong, if you don't insult or shame them for doing so.

We know the Dick Head.
Nothing anyone says or does will do anything to make it admit anything.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-01-2017, 05:01 AM
RE: Obama retools his political operation for post-Trump
(09-01-2017 11:13 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nothing anyone says or does will do anything to make it admit anything.
The irony is palpable.

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10-01-2017, 07:44 AM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2017 07:48 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Obama retools his political operation for post-Trump
(09-01-2017 11:12 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(09-01-2017 10:59 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Right. You dishonest fool. See those THREE sentences. You WERE talking about executive orders.


You tried to make it look like.
1. presidents can't make law. You were totally WRONG.
2. Then you tried to say Obama was unique in issuing executive orders. He wasn't.

At least have the decency to admit it when your are shown to be an ignorant fool.

The president CANNOT make laws. Not sure what constitution you're reading but it isn't the U.S. Constitution. The president CAN choose how a law is enforced or if it's enforced IF the law is written within the scope of the president's authority. These are rule changes. It's not like a president can add sections and subsections to U.S. Code unless authorized to be changed by the law itself (like drug classifications).

I never once said Obama issued more executive orders than any other president. I said that was his only way to get things done, his preferred method.

We saw what you did.
Now you try to weasel out of it.
You said he doesn't make law.
I GAVE YOU the link that proved you wrong.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-01-2017, 08:15 AM
RE: Obama retools his political operation for post-Trump
(09-01-2017 10:48 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(09-01-2017 10:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  But you just said they don't make law. And you were wrong.
Why should anyone listen to ANYTHING you say.
You never said anything about "scope" BEFORE it was pointed out to you you were wrong again.

How EXACTLY are you determining "scope" ?
Oh you don't know.
Why are we not surprised.

And BTW, it was not 44 executive order cases they lost. It was cases in general.
http://rare.us/story/obama-has-faced-mor...president/
Nice try.
More lies and distortions from the Dick Head Lord.

You are clueless. I never brought up the number of executive orders. I said his legacy was his pathetic use of executive orders due to his inability to get things done through congress.

A president is SUPPOSED to run the administrative side. He can administer the law, but CANNOT change the law as written by congress. A recent example was his attempt to change the definition of salary worker and overtime exempt status (as set by congress) and a federal judge shutting him down AGAIN.

Even if one pretends that the congress was willing to work with him, it still had the lowest approval ratings in history at 14%. 70% disapprove. I would ignore them too.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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