Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
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01-08-2015, 06:32 PM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 05:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  "Mandating people buy something' is different from any other tax in what substantive way?

My income taxes force me to buy all kinds of things I don't want.

Isn't the money you get from social security based on how much tax money you've paid over your lifetime? I honestly don't know, but I'd expect to see a tax return before seeing any of the money that actually never gets spent on my health, by the insurance company, being refunded. Like ever!

And I know at least a tiny percent of my taxes given over to the Gov. might go toward a new library book in a school somewhere, or help a pothole get filled covered over! I doubt any of the money I've paid toward health insurance, that I'll never see again, is accumulating in some "help the people with pre-existing conditions every insurance company loves to fix without hassles" fund, or otherwise being spent on something someone else can use! Like a bridge inspection, or something.

Wait... Insurance companies can afford lobbyists can't they? Sad

I guess the only difference, then, is one payment goes to an evil for-profit company, and the other goes to... Consider replacing an older golden toilet, in the Capital Building, with a newer, computerized, golden toilet! Weeping

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01-08-2015, 06:44 PM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 11:24 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I don't believe we are producing enough health care for everyone and the Affordable Care act contains perverse incentives which will retard increased production of health care.

One teensy weensy problem. It hasn't happened, and you failed to explain why that will happen.

I forgive you for being a fucking idiot.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-08-2015, 07:03 PM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 11:24 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-08-2015 05:12 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  So Heywood, it sounds like you are not against the affordable care act. Rather you are against setting limits for assisting people. Are you proposing an alternate form of limit or are you proposing that assisting people based on some limited condition is itself wrong? Are you against assistance in general for people who need help or just against that same assistance being denied to those who don't meet the criteria? Can you spell your proposal out a little more clearly?

I am against the Affordable Care Act. It is a pile of shit. Health care insurance is not health care just as food stamps are not food. Food stamps only work if there is enough food for everyone to begin with and the Affordable Care Act will only work if there is enough Health Care for everyone. I don't believe we are producing enough health care for everyone and the Affordable Care act contains perverse incentives which will retard increased production of health care.

I have no problem with the government hiring, and training health care providers and building health care clinics to treat anyone who walks thru the door provided a private health care industry is allowed to stand beside it. As a nation we are rich enough to do that.

So when you presented the argument above that the difference between someone who meets the criteria for assistance and one who does not meet the criteria is unjust were you being disingenuous? Are you prepared to defend your argument by proposing an alternative you would accept?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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01-08-2015, 08:14 PM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 11:09 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I forgive you for calling me a fucking idiot.

I forgive you for being a fucking idiot.

#sigh
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01-08-2015, 08:39 PM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 11:24 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I am against the Affordable Care Act. It is a pile of shit. Health care insurance is not health care just as food stamps are not food. Food stamps only work if there is enough food for everyone to begin with and the Affordable Care Act will only work if there is enough Health Care for everyone. I don't believe we are producing enough health care for everyone and the Affordable Care act contains perverse incentives which will retard increased production of health care.

I have no problem with the government hiring, and training health care providers and building health care clinics to treat anyone who walks thru the door provided a private health care industry is allowed to stand beside it. As a nation we are rich enough to do that.

It pains me to say this, because this guy is such a douchebag and because he keeps changing his argument, but I agree with this statement. I think this law sucks and it was the worst possible solution to the problem. Generally speaking, I'm all for capitalism and market solutions, but the market for health care has been completely perverted since the late 1940s and putting the toothpaste back in that particular tube is not going to happen. So, given where we were in 2009, I'd have much preferred a single payer government solution with may be a private insurance option for those who wished to pay for it. Similar to Canada.

What we got instead was this system that not only maintained the status quo but created a windfall for health insurance companies, mostly on the backs of people 18 to 30, basically the same people that we screw at every opportunity. On college costs, on loans, on jobs, etc. We just keep sticking it to that one age group.

That said, perhaps if the Republicans had shown up to the party instead of pouting about the whole thing we could have gotten a better law. Another problem is that we can't even have an educated discussion about the stupid law and what it's foibles are because we have to deal with douchebags like we have here who lead with bullshit arguments like "Obamacare causes poverty!!!!". Please. It took about 4 posts for you to completely rewrite your argument and then you had to keep rewriting it because your argument is really "well, I just don't like it". There is a word for people who do what you did here: douchebag.

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When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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02-08-2015, 12:22 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 06:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(01-08-2015 11:24 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I don't believe we are producing enough health care for everyone and the Affordable Care act contains perverse incentives which will retard increased production of health care.

One teensy weensy problem. It hasn't happened, and you failed to explain why that will happen.

I forgive you for being a fucking idiot.

I forgive you for calling me a fucking idiot.

But it has happened. Already there are areas of the country where people on medicaid can't find doctors or are having to wait substantially longer to get in to see a doctor.

Quote:"Coverage does not equal access," said Halby, who instead recommends his clients choose a plan outside the exchange that has a much broader provider network but also will not come with the government premium subsidies given to most of those who buy insurance through the exchange. "I tell people this up front: The premiums are going to be higher because there's no subsidy. However, I'm going to guarantee you can keep your doctor."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/07...85564.html
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02-08-2015, 12:23 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 08:14 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-08-2015 11:09 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I forgive you for calling me a fucking idiot.

I forgive you for being a fucking idiot.

I forgive you for calling me a fucking idiot.
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02-08-2015, 12:29 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 07:03 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(01-08-2015 11:24 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I am against the Affordable Care Act. It is a pile of shit. Health care insurance is not health care just as food stamps are not food. Food stamps only work if there is enough food for everyone to begin with and the Affordable Care Act will only work if there is enough Health Care for everyone. I don't believe we are producing enough health care for everyone and the Affordable Care act contains perverse incentives which will retard increased production of health care.

I have no problem with the government hiring, and training health care providers and building health care clinics to treat anyone who walks thru the door provided a private health care industry is allowed to stand beside it. As a nation we are rich enough to do that.

So when you presented the argument above that the difference between someone who meets the criteria for assistance and one who does not meet the criteria is unjust were you being disingenuous? Are you prepared to defend your argument by proposing an alternative you would accept?

I didn't present the argument you claim I presented. I never said anything about "meeting criteria for assistance". I don't know what you are talking about but it looks to me you are on the way to strawman town.
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02-08-2015, 12:32 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 08:39 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(01-08-2015 11:24 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I am against the Affordable Care Act. It is a pile of shit. Health care insurance is not health care just as food stamps are not food. Food stamps only work if there is enough food for everyone to begin with and the Affordable Care Act will only work if there is enough Health Care for everyone. I don't believe we are producing enough health care for everyone and the Affordable Care act contains perverse incentives which will retard increased production of health care.

I have no problem with the government hiring, and training health care providers and building health care clinics to treat anyone who walks thru the door provided a private health care industry is allowed to stand beside it. As a nation we are rich enough to do that.

It pains me to say this, because this guy is such a douchebag and because he keeps changing his argument, but I agree with this statement. I think this law sucks and it was the worst possible solution to the problem. Generally speaking, I'm all for capitalism and market solutions, but the market for health care has been completely perverted since the late 1940s and putting the toothpaste back in that particular tube is not going to happen. So, given where we were in 2009, I'd have much preferred a single payer government solution with may be a private insurance option for those who wished to pay for it. Similar to Canada.

What we got instead was this system that not only maintained the status quo but created a windfall for health insurance companies, mostly on the backs of people 18 to 30, basically the same people that we screw at every opportunity. On college costs, on loans, on jobs, etc. We just keep sticking it to that one age group.

That said, perhaps if the Republicans had shown up to the party instead of pouting about the whole thing we could have gotten a better law. Another problem is that we can't even have an educated discussion about the stupid law and what it's foibles are because we have to deal with douchebags like we have here who lead with bullshit arguments like "Obamacare causes poverty!!!!". Please. It took about 4 posts for you to completely rewrite your argument and then you had to keep rewriting it because your argument is really "well, I just don't like it". There is a word for people who do what you did here: douchebag.

I forgive you for calling me a douchbag.

I'm not presenting different arguments or changing the arguments. People ask me questions and I answer. And really, the republicans are absolutely the last people to blame. Blaming the republicans for this disaster is like blaming a woman for getting raped.
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02-08-2015, 01:27 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 11:12 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-08-2015 05:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  Except what you provided makes no sense:

What part of if makes no sense to you?

The fact that the bolded parts are inconsistent.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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