Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
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02-08-2015, 07:38 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(02-08-2015 12:32 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-08-2015 08:39 PM)BnW Wrote:  It pains me to say this, because this guy is such a douchebag and because he keeps changing his argument, but I agree with this statement. I think this law sucks and it was the worst possible solution to the problem. Generally speaking, I'm all for capitalism and market solutions, but the market for health care has been completely perverted since the late 1940s and putting the toothpaste back in that particular tube is not going to happen. So, given where we were in 2009, I'd have much preferred a single payer government solution with may be a private insurance option for those who wished to pay for it. Similar to Canada.

What we got instead was this system that not only maintained the status quo but created a windfall for health insurance companies, mostly on the backs of people 18 to 30, basically the same people that we screw at every opportunity. On college costs, on loans, on jobs, etc. We just keep sticking it to that one age group.

That said, perhaps if the Republicans had shown up to the party instead of pouting about the whole thing we could have gotten a better law. Another problem is that we can't even have an educated discussion about the stupid law and what it's foibles are because we have to deal with douchebags like we have here who lead with bullshit arguments like "Obamacare causes poverty!!!!". Please. It took about 4 posts for you to completely rewrite your argument and then you had to keep rewriting it because your argument is really "well, I just don't like it". There is a word for people who do what you did here: douchebag.

I forgive you for calling me a douchbag.

I'm not presenting different arguments or changing the arguments. People ask me questions and I answer. And really, the republicans are absolutely the last people to blame. Blaming the republicans for this disaster is like blaming a woman for getting raped.

I'd rather you apologize for being a douchebag.

And, you are changing your arguments. Your original argument was it causes poverty. But, when that argument was blown up by facts, you then tried for a while to redefine poverty as including people who make a third over the mean income in the US. Now you have changed your argument again to its driving some unproductive behaviors at a certain income level (which is something I seriously question but have not researched it enough to know what is really happening). But, you keep picking up the goal posts and moving them. You can claim you're not, but it's pretty obvious to everyone reading this thread that is exactly what you are doing.

What your argument really comes down to is you don't want to like the law. Which, is fine if you can actually articulate why you don't like it, but you really can't. Or, if you can, you are refusing to. Which is odd because I've actually given you some actual reasons not to like it.

As for the Republicans, I wasn't so much blaming them as much as pointing out that if they had shown up and done their jobs we may have had a better law. All they do is bitch and moan about the law we have without ever, not one single time, offering anything to replace it. They must be your collective heroes because that's all you do too.

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02-08-2015, 05:16 PM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(02-08-2015 05:19 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  So do you have a proposition to make?

That's a rhetorical question btw.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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03-08-2015, 12:57 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(02-08-2015 07:38 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(02-08-2015 12:32 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I forgive you for calling me a douchbag.

I'm not presenting different arguments or changing the arguments. People ask me questions and I answer. And really, the republicans are absolutely the last people to blame. Blaming the republicans for this disaster is like blaming a woman for getting raped.

I'd rather you apologize for being a douchebag.

And, you are changing your arguments. Your original argument was it causes poverty. But, when that argument was blown up by facts, you then tried for a while to redefine poverty as including people who make a third over the mean income in the US. Now you have changed your argument again to its driving some unproductive behaviors at a certain income level (which is something I seriously question but have not researched it enough to know what is really happening). But, you keep picking up the goal posts and moving them. You can claim you're not, but it's pretty obvious to everyone reading this thread that is exactly what you are doing.

What your argument really comes down to is you don't want to like the law. Which, is fine if you can actually articulate why you don't like it, but you really can't. Or, if you can, you are refusing to. Which is odd because I've actually given you some actual reasons not to like it.

As for the Republicans, I wasn't so much blaming them as much as pointing out that if they had shown up and done their jobs we may have had a better law. All they do is bitch and moan about the law we have without ever, not one single time, offering anything to replace it. They must be your collective heroes because that's all you do too.

I forgive you for calling me a douche bag.

Criticizing me because the poverty trap applies, in this case, to someone making around $70,000 and not $10,000 is being nit picky. It is still a perverse incentive for people not to better their lot in life.

Regarding research, you can plug the fucking numbers into the exchange and see the results. A 1 dollar increase in annual income leads to a $3300 loss.

Regarding the republicans, They did show up and do their jobs. They fought tooth and nail to try to stop this abortion of a bill, this government giveaway of American Tax dollars to the democratic party corporate cronies, this back door deals and buyoff just so Obama could have a legacy peace of crap. They are the heros here and you're just trying to find someone else to blame for something you know is complete garbage because you don't have the balls to acknowledge you made a mistake voting in the jackasses who passed this vomit.
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03-08-2015, 06:39 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
No, the wage difference is not a nit. Your argument was the law creates poverty. Its the title of the thread. And, now that your argument was proven factually incorrect, you changed it.

Second, what I wanted to research is if people are actually impacted. At those income levels, you generally have employer provided healthcare and are not buying off the exchanges.

Btw, I love your signature. You planning on adding the number of attacks you threw out as well? Or you planning on just playing pretend martyr?

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03-08-2015, 06:45 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(29-07-2015 01:47 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A couple of days ago, I was chatting with a friend who has his own janitorial company. Its a small company....basically himself and couple of family members. He sure like his Obamacare. He likes it so much that he made it a point to tell me that he was working with his accountant to keep his gross income below X amount of $ in order to keep his Obamacare subsidy.

I asked him how he will ever get ahead if government programs that he depends on create incentives for him not improve and grow his business? He didn't have an answer. Does anyone here have an answer?

I'd wonder what the subsidy would be? It's unlikely to anymore than few hundred dollars, perhaps 200-300. So I guess it could make sense if he was worried about making an extra 2-3 grand more a year. It would seem that he would have to forgo a great deal of potential income to save 2-3grand a year in healthcare cost, which doesn't make much sense at all really. It's sort of like telling my boss to forgo all raises, because I don't want to pay more for taxes than I currently do.
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03-08-2015, 08:22 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(03-08-2015 12:57 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  It is still a perverse incentive for people not to better their lot in life.

Those are your values. You don't get to slap your values onto anyone.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-08-2015, 12:57 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(03-08-2015 08:22 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-08-2015 12:57 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  It is still a perverse incentive for people not to better their lot in life.

Those are your values. You don't get to slap your values onto anyone.

It is not my values. Any rational person would forego earning 1 additional dollar of income if it going to make their expenses go up by $3300.
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04-08-2015, 06:20 PM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2015 06:44 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(31-07-2015 06:06 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 05:34 AM)morondog Wrote:  Funny old thing dickhead, I actually make decent money and do fulfilling work. Maybe you should stop projecting.

You obviously lying about making decent money. You're too stupid to make decent money.

I forgive you for calling morondog a liar and stupid. He's not stupid, he's a moron you fucking idiot.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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04-08-2015, 06:54 PM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(04-08-2015 12:57 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(03-08-2015 08:22 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Those are your values. You don't get to slap your values onto anyone.

It is not my values. Any rational person would forego earning 1 additional dollar of income if it going to make their expenses go up by $3300.

Yes it your values. Not everyone's values are upon their maximized potential benefit over the societal potential benefit. It's very western of someone to assume it's "rational" to care about the individuality and smaller group vs the larger collective.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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04-08-2015, 09:29 PM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(04-08-2015 12:57 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(03-08-2015 08:22 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Those are your values. You don't get to slap your values onto anyone.

It is not my values. Any rational person would forego earning 1 additional dollar of income if it going to make their expenses go up by $3300.

... unless that raise was because of a promotion which would increase their lifetime earnings and retirement bracket, which would certainly affect the math.

As I wrote earlier, penny-wise and pound-foolish. Perhaps you should google that phrase before replying? You seem unfamiliar with it.
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