Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
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01-08-2015, 02:35 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(31-07-2015 09:49 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  One of my family members had their health insurance taken care of through a company that wasn't recognized by the Obamacare system. He had to switch to one that was and lost a fair amount of money invested with the old company in the process! Ol' boy might just have got confused, but I'd be willing to tell him I have no sympathy for his plight, as he is not poor, if what happened to him was a by-product of the rearranging that was necessary to ensure all poor people have free universal health care that they previously didn't have enough money, after putting food on the table, to afford!

Does Obamacare provide free universal health care for people who didn't have enough money to buy some in the first place? Cuz if not, I'm not impressed!

I don't think Obamacare incentivizes poor people to stay poor Dodgy but I am wary of any law mandating people buy something, not being implemented alongside whole volumes of new regulatory legislature to make sure the people selling (what is now against the law not to own) can't gouge the hell out of people where ever and whenever they can! Undecided

Obamacare doesn't provide health care. It provides health care insurance. Big difference. Obamacare and it proponents operated on the highly dubious notion that there was this excess amount of health care being produced that was not being utilized and that if they gave everyone insurance all that extra health care would be utilized and everyone would be happy. A bunch of dummies they were.

We should have built hospitals, trained up doctors and nurses, manufactured MRI machines etc. This would have actually created more health care and actually helped people.
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01-08-2015, 05:12 AM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2015 05:29 AM by Hafnof.)
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
So Heywood, it sounds like you are not against the affordable care act. Rather you are against setting limits for assisting people. Are you proposing an alternate form of limit or are you proposing that assisting people based on some limited condition is itself wrong? Are you against assistance in general for people who need help or just against that same assistance being denied to those who don't meet the criteria? Can you spell your proposal out a little more clearly?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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01-08-2015, 05:19 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
Remember when we imposed sanctions on Cuba, cutting them off from medical equipment and forcing them to change their focus to preventive medicine instead of reactive medicine, and their health care system actually became more successful as a result?

Those were good times.

'Murican Canadian
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01-08-2015, 05:40 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(31-07-2015 09:49 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  One of my family members had their health insurance taken care of through a company that wasn't recognized by the Obamacare system. He had to switch to one that was and lost a fair amount of money invested with the old company in the process! Ol' boy might just have got confused, but I'd be willing to tell him I have no sympathy for his plight, as he is not poor, if what happened to him was a by-product of the rearranging that was necessary to ensure all poor people have free universal health care that they previously didn't have enough money, after putting food on the table, to afford!

Does Obamacare provide free universal health care for people who didn't have enough money to buy some in the first place? Cuz if not, I'm not impressed!

I don't think Obamacare incentivizes poor people to stay poor Dodgy but I am wary of any law mandating people buy something, not being implemented alongside whole volumes of new regulatory legislature to make sure the people selling (what is now against the law not to own) can't gouge the hell out of people where ever and whenever they can! Undecided

"Mandating people buy something' is different from any other tax in what substantive way?

My income taxes force me to buy all kinds of things I don't want.

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01-08-2015, 05:46 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 02:29 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 08:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  [Image: 1390269212824.png]

How about some actual evidence for those figures?

I provided it. Read the thread. Plug in the circumstances I provided into an exchange and see what it spits out.

Except what you provided makes no sense:

(30-07-2015 10:54 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Try this on an exchange. Create a fictitious household. Male 53, Female 52, child 13. Non tobacco users. The tax credit is $281.11 at a household income of $79,160. The tax credit is $0 at a household income of $79,161.

A $1 increase in annual income would cause the family to lose a $3372 annual tax credit.

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01-08-2015, 06:56 AM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2015 07:51 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 02:35 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Obamacare and it proponents operated on the highly dubious notion that there was this excess amount of health care being produced that was not being utilized and that if they gave everyone insurance all that extra health care would be utilized and everyone would be happy. A bunch of dummies they were.

We should have built hospitals, trained up doctors and nurses, manufactured MRI machines etc. This would have actually created more health care and actually helped people.

What a fucking idiot. Nowhere did any of the discussions preceding the ACA say anything about an "excess" of health care being produced by anyone, and you can provide nowhere that was said or referenced. You made that shit up, and pulled it out of your fat ass. You need to stop copy-pasting shit from the wacko web-sites you obviously frequent.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-08-2015, 11:09 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 06:56 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(01-08-2015 02:35 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Obamacare and it proponents operated on the highly dubious notion that there was this excess amount of health care being produced that was not being utilized and that if they gave everyone insurance all that extra health care would be utilized and everyone would be happy. A bunch of dummies they were.

We should have built hospitals, trained up doctors and nurses, manufactured MRI machines etc. This would have actually created more health care and actually helped people.

What a fucking idiot. Nowhere did any of the discussions preceding the ACA say anything about an "excess" of health care being produced by anyone, and you can provide nowhere that was said or referenced. You made that shit up, and pulled it out of your fat ass. You need to stop copy-pasting shit from the wacko web-sites you obviously frequent.

I forgive you for calling me a fucking idiot.
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01-08-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 05:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-08-2015 02:29 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I provided it. Read the thread. Plug in the circumstances I provided into an exchange and see what it spits out.

Except what you provided makes no sense:

(30-07-2015 10:54 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Try this on an exchange. Create a fictitious household. Male 53, Female 52, child 13. Non tobacco users. The tax credit is $281.11 at a household income of $79,160. The tax credit is $0 at a household income of $79,161.

A $1 increase in annual income would cause the family to lose a $3372 annual tax credit.

What part of if makes no sense to you?
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01-08-2015, 11:17 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 05:19 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Remember when we imposed sanctions on Cuba, cutting them off from medical equipment and forcing them to change their focus to preventive medicine instead of reactive medicine, and their health care system actually became more successful as a result?

Those were good times.

Countries self report health care data and often use different metrics. If a new born dies within a couple of hours of birth in Cuba it is counted as a still born. In the USA it would not. The effect of this difference in reporting is that it makes it appear that infant mortality is lower in Cuba than it is in the United States.

I wouldn't trust numbers coming out of Cuba. And for what it is worth, I don't trust numbers coming out of the United States either.
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01-08-2015, 11:24 AM
RE: Obamacare, keeping the poor in poverty
(01-08-2015 05:12 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  So Heywood, it sounds like you are not against the affordable care act. Rather you are against setting limits for assisting people. Are you proposing an alternate form of limit or are you proposing that assisting people based on some limited condition is itself wrong? Are you against assistance in general for people who need help or just against that same assistance being denied to those who don't meet the criteria? Can you spell your proposal out a little more clearly?

I am against the Affordable Care Act. It is a pile of shit. Health care insurance is not health care just as food stamps are not food. Food stamps only work if there is enough food for everyone to begin with and the Affordable Care Act will only work if there is enough Health Care for everyone. I don't believe we are producing enough health care for everyone and the Affordable Care act contains perverse incentives which will retard increased production of health care.

I have no problem with the government hiring, and training health care providers and building health care clinics to treat anyone who walks thru the door provided a private health care industry is allowed to stand beside it. As a nation we are rich enough to do that.
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