Obamacare makes people less likely to exercise, more likely to smoke and drink
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03-12-2013, 07:48 PM
RE: Obamacare makes people less likely to exercise, more likely to smoke and drink
(03-12-2013 07:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  An opinion piece? You use an opinion piece as evidence of something? You are silly.

Thank you so much Chas, GirlyMan, Sporehux. Were you seriously trying to prove the validity of the post I made just a few hours ago in another thread when I wrote that you "ONLY consider the empirical data that DOES support [your view]" and ignore the empirical data that contradicts it. You don't attempt to refute the data. You just ignore it.

The ink barely dries before I post this thread with an article linking to a 50 page peer reviewed paper from the National Buereau of Economic Research with references to nearly 100 other peer reviewed studies. So, I've presented mountains of empirical data. Do you refute it? Nope, just like I predicted, you dismissed it without consideration saying "I'm just silly".

I was expecting Cjlr was going to throw out a "citation" needed on that other thread, but you guys nipped that one in the bud.
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03-12-2013, 07:51 PM
RE: Obamacare makes people less likely to exercise, more likely to smoke and drink
(03-12-2013 07:48 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(03-12-2013 07:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  An opinion piece? You use an opinion piece as evidence of something? You are silly.

Thank you so much Chas, GirlyMan, Sporehux. Were you seriously trying to prove the validity of the post I made just a few hours ago in another thread when I wrote that you "ONLY consider the empirical data that DOES support [your view]" and ignore the empirical data that contradicts it. You don't attempt to refute the data. You just ignore it.

The ink barely dries before I post this thread with an article linking to a 50 page peer reviewed paper from the National Buereau of Economic Research with references to nearly 100 other peer reviewed studies. So, I've presented mountains of empirical data. Do you refute it? Nope, just like I predicted, you dismissed it without consideration saying "I'm just silly".

I was expecting Cjlr was going to throw out a "citation" needed on that other thread, but you guys nipped that one in the bud.

Girly go lift bigass rocks off the ground. ... I will raise a 1/4 ton before I die even if it means the death of me. Aetna be damned. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-12-2013, 07:56 PM
RE: Obamacare makes people less likely to exercise, more likely to smoke and drink
(03-12-2013 07:43 PM)BnW Wrote:  First, I 100% agree with you that having health insurers in the middle of every health care transaction is ridiculous and defeats the whole purpose of insurance...

Second - and this is the important part so pay attention - the system you keep complaining about has fuck all to do with Obamacare. The ACA had zero impact on this system. It changed nothing with regard to how insurance basically works.

Please clarify. Before Obamacare I had $2 million in health insurance from Anthem Blue Cross for $54/month. It did not cover any routine medical care--only unexpected diseases. You just said in your first point that this was the logical approach, inline with the whole purpose of insurance.

Now, that insurance policy is cancelled because it's non-ACA compliant, which mandates that health insurance companies can no longer offer "insurance", but rather MUST offer comprehensive managed healthcare plans, and which requires me to buy one. So Obamacare forced me to change from an insurance plan that only covered high-risk items, to a managed care plan that covers everything.

I'm really curious how this fuck all to do with Obamacare, when it was Obamacare that mandated this change!
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03-12-2013, 07:58 PM
RE: Obamacare makes people less likely to exercise, more likely to smoke and drink
(03-12-2013 07:56 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(03-12-2013 07:43 PM)BnW Wrote:  First, I 100% agree with you that having health insurers in the middle of every health care transaction is ridiculous and defeats the whole purpose of insurance...

Second - and this is the important part so pay attention - the system you keep complaining about has fuck all to do with Obamacare. The ACA had zero impact on this system. It changed nothing with regard to how insurance basically works.

Please clarify. Before Obamacare I had $2 million in health insurance from Anthem Blue Cross for $54/month. It did not cover any routine medical care--only unexpected diseases. You just said in your first point that this was the logical approach, inline with the whole purpose of insurance.

Now, that insurance policy is cancelled because it's non-ACA compliant, which mandates that health insurance companies can no longer offer "insurance", but rather MUST offer comprehensive managed healthcare plans, and which requires me to buy one. So Obamacare forced me to change from an insurance plan that only covered high-risk items, to a managed care plan that covers everything.

I'm really curious how this fuck all to do with Obamacare, when it was Obamacare that mandated this change!

You could always move to Hong Kong. You know, like you did your business. ... I mean they got the like best health care system on the planet and shit.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-12-2013, 08:01 PM
RE: Obamacare makes people less likely to exercise, more likely to smoke and drink
Well the OP makes a pretty good point:
Then - "If I smoke and drink, and develop some fatal medical problem, I'll have to pay for my last days in the hospital"
Now - "I can smoke and drink and die and its all covered!"

It makes sense... That is of course, for those who WANT to suffer and die from poor health. Rolleyes
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03-12-2013, 08:01 PM
RE: Obamacare makes people less likely to exercise, more likely to smoke and drink
Obamacare eliminated the disaster-type plans that you apparently had (although I believe they are giving an extension on that) but the system where 3rd party payors sit between the insured and the doctor on every transaction is the result of the HMO Act of 1973, not Obamacare. You were in that system regardless of what type of insurance you had. And, you had a disaster policy and you were not 25 or under or just could not afford more, you were a sucker. Anyone who does not have a policy or a policy that covers routine care was payin the "non-negotiated" rates from doctors, which were jacked up to cover the discounts they gave to the insurance companies.

So, yes, Obamacare may have cancelled your personal policy but it did not do anything to create the 3rd party payor system we operate under.

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03-12-2013, 08:10 PM
RE: Obamacare makes people less likely to exercise, more likely to smoke and drink
(03-12-2013 08:01 PM)BnW Wrote:  Obamacare eliminated the disaster-type plans that you apparently had (although I believe they are giving an extension on that) but the system where 3rd party payors sit between the insured and the doctor on every transaction is the result of the HMO Act of 1973, not Obamacare. You were in that system regardless of what type of insurance you had. And, you had a disaster policy and you were not 25 or under or just could not afford more, you were a sucker. Anyone who does not have a policy or a policy that covers routine care was payin the "non-negotiated" rates from doctors, which were jacked up to cover the discounts they gave to the insurance companies.

So, yes, Obamacare may have cancelled your personal policy but it did not do anything to create the 3rd party payor system we operate under.

It's a double-edged sword. Maryland's HMO policy of prohibiting providers from charging more than my HMO's set rate saved me thousands of dollars when my son had an emergency procedure performed out of network a couple of decades ago now. Fucker even sued my ass. I was the only one to show up in court. ... What I learned? Don't pay them a fucking dime 'cause that's admitting the entire debt. I didn't.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-12-2013, 08:10 PM
RE: Obamacare makes people less likely to exercise, more likely to smoke and drink
(03-12-2013 07:58 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You could always move to Hong Kong. You know, like you did your business. ... I mean they got the like best health care system on the planet and shit.

I have already moved out of the US. But I still have to buy Obamacare since it's tied to taxes, and I still have to pay US taxes even if I never set foot on US soil. As I mentioned, my old health insurance was cheap enough that I kept it only to cover those periods when I visited the US. Now I have to throw $250/month away on an Obamacare plan that I'll never use.
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03-12-2013, 08:12 PM
RE: Obamacare makes people less likely to exercise, more likely to smoke and drink
(03-12-2013 08:10 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(03-12-2013 07:58 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  You could always move to Hong Kong. You know, like you did your business. ... I mean they got the like best health care system on the planet and shit.

I have already moved out of the US. But I still have to buy Obamacare since it's tied to taxes, and I still have to pay US taxes even if I never set foot on US soil. As I mentioned, my old health insurance was cheap enough that I kept it only to cover those periods when I visited the US. Now I have to throw $250/month away on an Obamacare plan that I'll never use.

Renounce your citizenship and be done with it.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-12-2013, 08:15 PM
RE: Obamacare makes people less likely to exercise, more likely to smoke and drink
(03-12-2013 07:43 PM)BnW Wrote:  Second - and this is the important part so pay attention - the system you keep complaining about has fuck all to do with Obamacare. The ACA had zero impact on this system. It changed nothing with regard to how insurance basically works. It certainly doesn't improve the system, but you act like it is the cause, as if before Obama there was some kind of insurance wonderland out there. Newsflash - there wasn't.

That's silly.

You're silly.

Everything is Obama's fault.

Everything.

... this is my signature!
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