Objecting the concept of a Deity
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
21-12-2012, 11:58 AM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2012 12:05 PM by Vosur.)
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
(21-12-2012 11:41 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  I never proposed that the only viable solution to the origin of the the universe is God.
Indeed, it was the hypothetical religious scholar in your explanation that proposed it.

"[...] religious scholars begin their argument there. That God or some other higher power is behind such an event. nothing else could be."

It was not my intention to assert that you were the one making this claim.

(21-12-2012 11:41 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  You admit that no one has the answer to the origins of the universe, yet claim to know for certain that a deity cannot exist? That is the very embodiment of the point you make about why Christians should not believe in God.
As I have previously stated, I am an agnostic atheist. I do not claim to know for certain, let alone know at all, that supernatural deities do not exist; my philosophical position is based on the absence of evidence for said deities. The moment someone brings forth evidence to support the existence of their particular deity, I will have to change my mind about the question of whether or not god(s) exist. In other words, while I'm open to the possibility that supernatural deities exist, I do require evidence for their existence before I recognize that they do, in fact, exist.

(21-12-2012 11:41 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  (lets assume from know on when speaking of God, we speak for the entire essence of any deity/higher power/supernatural existance, lol. its easier since we are having such a long discussion. I should let you know you are a very intelligent person, and i admire your ability to analyze. I hope you feel the same Smile we have a lot in common, even as opponents.)
Thanks for the compliment, but why do you think that we are opponents? As far as I can tell, you and I have the same view on the possible existence of god(s). Unless, of course, you meant to say that we are opponents in this discussion specifically.

(21-12-2012 11:41 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  I simply said that is a possibility not refuted by the laws of physics.
That is correct. Since the gods of most religions are outside and beyond our natural realm (supernatural) there is no way science could refute or confirm their existence (hence why the "god hypothesis" is unfalsifiable).

(21-12-2012 11:41 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  although I will concede to God as described in the bible as you said quote"the Christian god is imagined to be an immaterial, supernatural and conscious being that has an interest in the human race, whereas the hypothesized singularity possesses none of the characteristics". However i believe you misunderstood the hypothesis. What i was implying is that the infinite factor is characteristic to God's "power", and that is, would be in my mind, a representation of that power, (possibly a gate to "heaven" as i imagine it, although let me stress i do NOT believe in this or God, i just don't deny his possible existence, i hope you have firmly established that by now.)
We're in the same boat then.

Edit: I completely missed this response of yours.

(21-12-2012 11:41 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  Well then as it seems you do not deny its possibility, then we agree. That was in fact my original intentional message. And of course i do not expect you to worship in God. I do not. I do see Him as a possibility. And i do see now there are different kinds of atheist. That was a piece of information I did not have before. I'm glad you brought that to my attention. This has been a very stimulating conversation. I'm enjoying it very much.
You're welcome. I do like conversations with people who are open to the possibility of learning, hence why I rarely discuss with fundamentalists and extremists who have already made up their mind about certain issues and questions.

[Image: IcJnQOT.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Vosur's post
21-12-2012, 12:06 PM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
Yes my technicalities between Hypothesis and theory was wrong; i stand corrected. However the principles of the points i was trying to make were sound. My editing is flawed cause I was being lazy, eager for a quick respnse, i apologize. I will correct that. Not sure how to use the tools of the forum at my disposal yet on quoting a post as vos has, perhaps an email on how to do that properly would be adequate. Thank your for the applause on my attitude. I'm simply engaging in interesting conversation and do not wish to seem to claim superiority in my hypotheses. I do hope you have found my post to be be equally intriguing as vos. My post was to try to prove that one cannot definitively say a deity does not exist, and that has stood the test of this debate as Vosur confirmed and agreed. Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-12-2012, 12:10 PM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
haha let me say i was making the responses to earlier post of of Vosur, before i was able to read that Vosur agreed with my position, i was still under the impression that he disagreed with the possibility of a deity, i apologise for that.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-12-2012, 12:14 PM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
I believe it is time for brain food in another thread! I would like to discuss science with you Vosur, if you would like to join me. everyone else is welcome to give their input.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-12-2012, 12:18 PM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
(21-12-2012 11:45 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Vos, it beats me how you still have so much patience after all these years. Good job, sir.
Thanks. My patience has actually increased throughout the years. I'm much more relaxed in discussions now than I was years or even months ago. Every discussion helps me improve both my knowledge and my debating skills. Even if I end up getting insulted on a personal level by the people I talk to (y'all know whom I'm talking about, so I don't need to mention them), I will have learned that there's no need for me to waste my time on those who are unwilling to do me the courtesy of remaining civil during a conversation.

At the end of the day, I enjoy what I do on here. This forum has contributed a lot the quality of my life and my improved my grades in English and religion significantly (currently in 13th grade [final year] and I have an A+ in both subjects).

[Image: IcJnQOT.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Vosur's post
21-12-2012, 12:24 PM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
(21-12-2012 12:06 PM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  Not sure how to use the tools of the forum at my disposal yet on quoting a post as vos has, perhaps an email on how to do that properly would be adequate.
I'll upload a video on how to structure a post coherently using the forum editor in a bit.

(21-12-2012 12:10 PM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  haha let me say i was making the responses to earlier post of of Vosur, before i was able to read that Vosur agreed with my position, i was still under the impression that he disagreed with the possibility of a deity, i apologise for that.
No problem.

(21-12-2012 12:14 PM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  I believe it is time for brain food in another thread! I would like to discuss science with you Vosur, if you would like to join me. everyone else is welcome to give their input.
I only have a layman's understanding of most fields in science (with the exception of some areas in biology), but I'll do my best to answer you according to my knowledge nonetheless.

[Image: IcJnQOT.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-12-2012, 12:46 PM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2012 02:04 PM by Aseptic Skeptic.)
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
OK, TruthSeeker, you got a whole lot of this wrong. I'll explain, but it's going to take a while.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  my main purpose, is to explain to Christians why those who harbor latent or even evident ill will to faith in a higher power. It is not my goal to offend atheists or theists, nor anyone else. More strongly i will say that it is not intended to give Christians or those who DO have faith a reason to justify their beliefs. My hope is that this essay will bring more peace to civil, and logistical discussions on the debate between science and religion.

OK, but you better get it right, otherwise you're just spreading misinformation.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  My theory is this; those who harbor such a strong objection to the existence of God are those whom have had certain events unfold in their lives.

What event? You should give an example or two. The one that follows doesn't even support this theory.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  These events can be anything; something or a number of somethings that happen to that affect the view point of the individual. For a general example, atheists often ask how a person can believe in God when something horrible happens to them or their family members.

Do you mean "Atheists ask why a believer remains faithful when something horrible happens to the believer or the believer's family"? Yeah, I see that all the time, but that is NOT an event that happened in the atheist's life that made the atheist question the validity of faith.

Or do you mean "Atheists ask why should a believer remains faithful after something horrible happens to the atheist or the atheist's family"? OK, this time it is an event in the atheist's life, but clearly not the event that made them an atheist or they wouldn't already be an atheist. Also, in my experience, I have never once heard of an atheist actually doing this - something bad happens to an atheist so they run to a Christian and ask them how the Christian can be faithful with all the bad stuff happening to the atheist. That doesn't even make sense. I already know the answer. Any Christian I've ever met would say "it's because your an atheist" or some version of that answer - no point in even asking this question, and I don't think any atheists really ever do.

Or do you mean "Atheists ask how an atheist can remain faithful after something horrible happens to the atheist or the atheist's family"? Nah, you can't mean that because it's an invalid question. Atheists by definition are not faithful so this question is nonsense.

Or do you mean "Believers ask how the believer can remain faithful after something horrible happens to that believer or that believer's family, and then the believer becomes an atheist"? This is the one that finally makes sense, but it is very far removed from what you actually typed. Yes, this is often how a believer begins the journey to atheism.

Now this is important:

But many atheists would say that nothing like this ever happened to them. Many just started asking questions, finding flaws in the biblical or canonical doctrine, researching to get answers, and figuring out that Christianity (et. al.) is nonsense - all entirely without any catastrophic event to propel them into atheism.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  This perfectly logical question is the result of a person who simply does not understand and is not educated properly in what the Christian faith teaches.

Wrong.

Many atheists actually do understand exactly what the Christian faith teaches. Many atheists right here on this forum are ex-ministers. Some have college degrees in Theology or related degrees. Many atheists are true experts on Christianity and/or other faiths.

Don't make the mistake of thinking "oh, you're an atheist, it MUST be because you haven't heard the word of Christ.".

Incidentally, that IS one thing the Christian faith teaches: all who are not Christians are merely so because they haven't learned about Christ. Once they hear the word and simply open their eyes to the truth, the holy spirit will fill them with the truth. See, I know that since even though I'm an atheist who shouldn't know what I'm talking about.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  I will say this once; In order to question a faiths concept, you logically MUST have a working knowledge of THAT faith.

Fair enough. That statement is true of every concept, faith or otherwise. But asking questions is a way to gain information, so it should be perfectly acceptable for someone to question a concept as a means to learn more about it, which implicitly excludes having a working knowledge of that concept.

Maybe what you meant to say is "in order to undermine a faith's concept..." in which case I totally agree with you.

Also note, in order to undermine the concept of atheism, you MUST have a working knowledge of atheism. See, the sword cuts both ways.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  the gist is that the bible teaches that bad things happen, not because it is the will of God, but because of the will of Satan.

The bible teaches us this, but it is a contradiction and it makes no sense. I will call this the Satan Contradiction for future reference.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  It teaches that Satan is a real and dangerous threat.

Fair enough. Satan must be almost as powerful as god. Satan knows what we want, how to tempt us, has almost unlimited power to see into our heart's desire, create temptation, and even steal our souls if we allow it. He is immortal and seems to be omnipotent, or so close to it that I can't tell the difference.

That Satan is pretty powerful. As powerful as God?

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  God can only offer protection from evil if you give yourself to him and Jesus Christ.

Wait a minute, Satan is omnipotent but now you're telling me that god is NOT omnipotent? God "can only offer protection" under certain circumstances? Does that mean that God's power is limited? You didn't say "God only wants to offer protection", you said he can't do it. Can't. That puts limits on God. Limits on God means god is not omnipotent.

Oddly enough, you don't put the same limits on Satan. Satan can and will harm me if I don't find Jesus. Satan can do this even if I don't want him to.

So, God cannot help me unless I grant God the ability to help me, but Satan can harm me even if I explicitly refuse to allow him to harm me.

Doesn't this mean that Satan has more power than God?

Who is running this show anyway?

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  More on that later.

Yeah, I'll bet.

Your Satan Contradiction is nonsense. I just showed you how what the bible teaches us is completely nonsense. No way any Christian alive would agree with what I just said about God being limited and Satan being the omnipotent one.

So, if God is really the omnipotent and Satan is also omnipotent, then there are two omnipotent deities fighting for all of mankind?

How many Christians would agree with that statement? How did God cast Satan out if Satan is exactly as omnipotent as God? Answer: he couldn't. If they were equally omnipotent, neither one of them could win. But God won. The bible says so. Therefore, Satan is not omnipotent but God is.

So we're back to the Satan Contradiction - how can a not-omnipotent Satan harm me against my will and yet an omnipotent God cannot do anything about it unless I accept Jesus as my savior?

There is no good answer for that.

Answer 1: God cannot help me because there is no god. Fortunately, there is also no Satan, fore surely if Satan exists but God doesn't, this world would have been consumed in fire and brimstone long ago. But Christians don't like this answer.

Answer 2: God can help but chooses not to. This is a whole new can of worms. Think about this: God is omnipotent and omniscient. Omniscient means he knows everything and he always has known everything, even before he said "let there be light". So even before he created heaven and earth, he knew you would be born and he knew I would be born. He knew our names. He knew the numbers of the hair on my head (Luke 12:7). Way back then he knew all this. He knew I would be born. He knew I would be an atheist and never accept Jesus as my savior. He knew I would burn in hell for all eternity because of this. He knew it before he made these stupid rules that condemn me to hell for eternity.

And yet he still made the rules, knowing that I would burn for eternity.

What's worse, less than one billion Christians on this earth are going to heaven. That leaves over six billion people headed for hell. Alive right now. How many more hell-bound non-Christians are going to be born in the future and will go to hell? How many more on-Christians are already burning from the past throughout all the ages of history?

God sure likes to burn people, torture them for all of eternity, billions and billions and billions. And more being born every day.

God knew Satan would revolt. He knew Adam would eat the apple. He knew sin would happen. He knew exactly who would burn for eternity and who would make it to heaven. He knew that maybe even trillions of souls would burn in hell for eternity. He knew all this. He knew he could change it and make it better. He knew it all before he said "Let there be light".

And yet he made it work this way?

Criminy, I thought the Viking Ragnarok was silly and nonsensical, but this nonsense is even harder to accept.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  Many people only believe in what they can prove, and science is the way to seek many truths and answers. I am an advocate.

Correct. I'm glad you're an advocate of science, not many theists are.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  I was raised Christian al my life, and was a believer as a child. As I grew older i began to question the credibility of my faith, but never disowned it. Kids who are told that when bad things happen its the will of God, will of course inevitably find more logical and REAL answer to why bad things happen.

But it IS the will of God. Only God is omnipotent. Satan is not omnipotent. Therefore EVERYTHING Satan does can be stopped by omnipotent God. And god is not surprised because he is also omniscient, so he knows everything Satan is doing and is absolutely, ominipotently, capable of stopping all of it, but chooses not to. Ergo, every bad thing that happens is EXACTLY the will of God.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  This eventually leads to them knowing correctly that they have the ability to contribute an effort to prevent bad things from happening to them.

No we don't. We are not the omnipotent ones. That would be God and maybe Satan. We cannot contribute to prevent bad things.

Even accepting Jesus as our savior doesn't prevent bad things. Christians get killed by tornadoes, eaten by sharks, fed to Roman lions, murdered by serial killers, die from cancer, etc. All the time. God doesn't spare them from bad things.

The most you can say from Christian doctrine is that we can contribute to preventing one bad thing. Exactly one bad thing. By accepting Jesus as our savior and living a good Christian life, we can avoid going to Hell. Sure, as bad things go, burning in hell for eternity is a doozy of a bad thing. But that is the ONLY bad thing that Christianity really teaches us how to avoid.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  That they are in control of their OWN lives, their OWN destiny. Some people will always be unable to accept the concept of destiny that is controlled by someone above them.

Here is your second contradiction. You say we are in control of our "OWN destiny" and then in the next sentence you say our destiny is "controlled by someone above them". These two concepts are mutually exclusive you know.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  Personally, i agree with that. However this sometimes lead to a false presumption that those who have faith are ignorant. And there are those of faith that are uneducated, ignorant, blind, and just devout which from an intellectual person seems crazy and stupid.

You're partially correct here. Some atheists may think this way. Many do not. I don't. I know many smart people who are Christian (et al). I don't think for a second that faithful people are all uneducated, ignorant, or blind, though I think that for many of them their devoutness is blind - I know way too many Christians who, when confronted with hard questions, fall back on the old "Only God can answer that, so I'm content with just having faith". That is blindly devout, regardless of their other intellectual qualities.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  Christians that shun science and facts right in front of them set bad examples for the faith itself.

Agreed. I am not so narrow minded to think all Christians do this. The ones who do are, in fact, setting bad examples.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  If you want it plain,

YES! Please!

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  here it is; neither science or the Christian scholars have ever found tangible proof that gives way to once side or the other.

Not true.

Christian scholars have found no tangible proof. You got that half of it right.

Scientists, historians, archaeologists, they have found heaps and mounds and tons of tangible proof that contradicts an enormous amount of Christian mythology.

Now, if what you meant to say was that neither side has proven/disproved the existence of God, well, that is certainly true. But let's be honest, Christians only have one source to know about god: the bible. Don't tell me they can learn in church because everyone teaching in church learned their info from the bible, or from another teacher who learned from the bible. It's all from the bible. Without the bible, there would be no Christianity because nobody alive today, NOT ONE PERSON, would have ever heard of Yahweh without it.

So if everything Christian comes from the bible, and most of the bible is wrong, misunderstood, mistranslated, made up, and internally self-contradicting, then how can a reasonable person who researches this and understands this, actually accept the bible or the religions that revere it?

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  The is nothing in all the modern laws and formulas of Physics that disproves the concept of a deity or Intelligent Design.

Agreed. Especially since theists, especially Christians, like to hide their god by saying things like "he exists outside of space and time" - well of course there's no way to detect that.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  There is also nothing that the Pope, his researchers, or any religious scholar has discovered or announced that proves they are correct either.

Right again.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  The fact is, it may come as a shock to some both atheists and believers that science has indeed provided evidence that heaven/God/a higher power could possibly exist.

OK, please, do tell!

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  my point in this is to PROVE that no of you are right, no one has the answer,

No need to prove that. We all know that already. The only ones who don't know that are the blindly devout.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  and until that day comes, i will be vigilantly seeking more knowledge.

Excellent attitude!

But wait, where were you going with this post? You started by saying you were going to explain to Christians why we atheists hate god. I don't think you explained that. You began with a false premise that we all harbor ill will toward God. Not true. You put forth an event-based theory that is way off the mark. You supported it with the Satan Contradiction which is inherently flawed. You concluded by telling everyone that we don't know anything about god which is true, but hardly enlightening and poorly supported by your post and would be rejected out-of-hand by almost all Christians on the basis that they truly believe that they do know about god and the bible is their evidence.

In short, I don't know what you accomplished.

I don't know what I accomplished rebutting your post, but hopefully at least you have some new insight and maybe can attempt a version 2.0 from a more supportable position.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Aseptic Skeptic's post
21-12-2012, 12:46 PM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
(21-12-2012 12:06 PM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  Yes my technicalities between Hypothesis and theory was wrong; i stand corrected. However the principles of the points i was trying to make were sound. My editing is flawed cause I was being lazy, eager for a quick response, i apologize. I will correct that. Not sure how to use the tools of the forum at my disposal yet on quoting a post as vos has, perhaps an email on how to do that properly would be adequate. Thank your for the applause on my attitude. I'm simply engaging in interesting conversation and do not wish to seem to claim superiority in my hypotheses. I do hope you have found my post to be be equally intriguing as vos. My post was to try to prove that one cannot definitively say a deity does not exist, and that has stood the test of this debate as Vosur confirmed and agreed. Smile

When replying, click on 'Source' rather than 'Editor'. A bit easier that way.
Use [quote ] and [/quote ] to box off the bit you want to quote.

Quote:I do hope you have found my post to be be equally intriguing as Vos.

Well (and I do not mean to be rude) but "intriguing" is not the right word but only because this topic has been covered here before.

"Encouraging" is a better word.

To quote Hitchens (dunno if you cover Hitch in you journo course but I'm sure you know of him):
"It may not be said..." Bugger, I'm really way too drunk. Let Hitch tell it...

See the first 30 seconds....




Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like DLJ's post
21-12-2012, 01:26 PM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
(21-12-2012 12:46 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  ...
I'll explain, but it's going to take a while.
...

A masterpiece! Bravo!

Bowing

APB - All Points Bulletin - APB - All Points Bulletin - APB - All Points Bulletin - APB - All Points Bulletin - APB

If you have not already done so...

FUCKING WELL REP THIS DUDE!

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-12-2012, 02:20 PM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
Aseptic Skeptic, you have incorrectly judge many point in my first presentation. I'd like to point out that I wrote everything on a whim, with no prep whatsoever, nor did i edit any of the information before i posted it. that said, i do owe you a few explanations of a few points you seem to be so confused about. I will proceed with no particular order.

First off, you say I am wrong with this statement "[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]This perfectly logical question is the result of a person who simply does not understand and is not educated properly in what the Christian faith teaches." I am not. It means that specific individual must not have a complete understanding of how the Christian faith works, if he/she did, he/she would not have to ask such a question. I refer to the fact that that Christians believe that if harm befalls them, they have not been in touch with God,(research Psalms 91).[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Secondly, you claim I implied Satan has equal power to God. He does not. You claim I implied he is the omnipotent. I did not. I will elaborate on the protection God offers. According to the bible, God gave humanity the "power" of free will. Choice. Our most important aspect of being a sapient conscious being. It is with that power of free will that we must choose Him above all else. To love Him as He is our Father, for it is that love that must tie us to Him. It is only if we make the choice with our given "power" of free will that enables Him to provide protection. He gave us the choice to enable His protection, if we choose to not love Him, to shun our heavenly Father, he cannot protect us, in which the bible says that action pains him. but he gave us the choice. Its not a hard concept to understand, when you "love someone, you let them go" u want them to be happy so you let them make their own decision.

Thirdly, I agree i went completely off topic after awhile. I got distracted on other points. [/font]I'm not exactly writing a paper for a grade so i didn't put really any effort into the structure of the essay. [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]On that original point, I have living examples, friends that insist on an aggressive undertaking to prove Christians are ignorant or just superstitious people. And all of them are friends of mine, who as children had been mislead to believe that the Christian faith is something it is not. Their view point of the faith was one that twisted and distorted the common assumed beliefs about the Christian faith. That, or they learned from external sources. I will give a no name example, but one particular friend would read the blog of a famous member of a band. This famous person expresses that he was formerly a Catholic. This person's upbringing was unique and he was taught uniquely, he must have been, because his words on his ex-faith on many points were incorrect. He belonged to a Private Catholic school, struggled with authority and because of its strict and unrelenting methods, he resented his faith, probably believing all Christians, and all teachings are the same. They are not. EVERY church approaches its teaching differently, and some apply man made methods to teach the gospel in a way that God,(if he exists), would not approve of. There are so many man-made rules and regulations in the religious machine that is the Catholic church. When in fact, it is the bible that says only what is written within is the truth. Now some religious leaders may have, and still do implement these rules that are based off of what the bible says, but are more often than not taken out of context. Im getting a little off topic again. ill elaborate more if you would like, but the point is, my friend took the twisted view of a special case individual and made an assumption about the Christian faith. That is the kind of Atheist I originally meant to refer to. The child idolizes a role models false understanding, and then of course being told that all that happens, including his misfortunes, are the will of God, the child grows up hating the entire faith as a whole with know real knowledge of it. [/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Fourthly, you say this: "[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Maybe what you meant to say is "in order to undermine a faith's concept..." in which case I totally agree with you." I thought that was obvious, but for your sake I will be more clear next time. Understanding what I meant seems to be difficult. I will make an effort to clear up anything you wish to point out.

On your big Satan confusion, i believe I cleared that up on my second note: The bible teaches Satan cannot touch you if you are under God protection, so that make God Superior. Unless of course you sever your connection with God, and as i expained, the devil is free to prey upon you. Pretty simple. not sure why u had so much to say about that one lol. But i appreciate the questions nonetheless. I consider this an enlightening experience for me, learning that in fact atheist's such as yourself do not know much about the bible as you might have seemed to claim. which was one of my points i made in my original post that you must have again, missed somehow. I again apologize for the confusion. Smile

You also seem to think I was automatically addressing all Atheist's in that they know nothing of what they challenge. I did not. never did I say, as you implied, that "atheist's all think Christians are uneducated etc." i said it SOME individuals SOMETIMES lead themselves to believe that. Again, next time at the end of such a statement, to add perfect clearity, i will say "But not all".

In proving that some Christian mythology is false you are absolutely correct, however I never claimed that science did not prove such a thing. I did say that science has not disproved the ultimate theory is the possible existence of God. That is true. evolution, is fact, but it doesnt not prove that God is not responsible. Did you know btw that when you have all the ingredients for life in a lab, you cannot, despite all our brightest efforts, create life? out of the shear building blocks? assuming you even know that those elements are hydrogen, oxygen, carbon and nitrogen. We still do not know how life just sparks into a living hunk of matter. We dont know what drives it. what makes it alive. we know that a cell uses energy from glucose molecules to multiply and divide, but we dont know how that hunk of four elements becomes that living cell. That's the biological argument, and ive already made the Physics argument.

My final statement to you Aseptic Skeptic is to rethink your approach to my hypothesis. perhaps now that your points of interjection have been refuted, you could now make your own 2.0 rendition of where you were going with how you addressed my post.

[/font]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: