Objecting the concept of a Deity
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21-12-2012, 08:59 AM
Objecting the concept of a Deity
I believe I have the psychological answer to why some individuals who do not believe in God- and i do mean specifically The God of the Christian faith- press so aggressively that He does not exist. This topic is designed to to address that specific argument. However, it may be extended to other arguments. Its main purpose, my main purpose, is to explain to Christians why those who harbor latent or even evident ill will to faith in a higher power. It is not my goal to offend atheists or theists, nor anyone else. More strongly i will say that it is not intended to give Christians or those who DO have faith a reason to justify their beliefs. My hope is that this essay will bring more peace to civil, and logistical discussions on the debate between science and religion.

My theory is this; those who harbor such a strong objection to the existence of God are those whom have had certain events unfold in their lives. These events can be anything; something or a number of somethings that happen to that affect the view point of the individual. For a general example, atheists often ask how a person can believe in God when something horrible happens to them or their family members. This perfectly logical question is the result of a person who simply does not understand and is not educated properly in what the Christian faith teaches. I will say this once; In order to question a faiths concept, you logically MUST have a working knowledge of THAT faith. It should be clear that statement alone should be addressed in a different thread, but the gist is that the bible teaches that bad things happen, not because it is the will of God, but because of the will of Satan. It teaches that Satan is a real and dangerous threat. God can only offer protection from evil if you give yourself to him and Jesus Christ. More on that later.

Lets get back to examples of why some people argue God doesn't exist. Many people only believe in what they can prove, and science is the way to seek many truths and answers. I am an advocate. I was raised Christian al my life, and was a believer as a child. As I grew older i began to question the credibility of my faith, but never disowned it. Kids who are told that when bad things happen its the will of God, will of course inevitably find more logical and REAL answer to why bad things happen. This eventually leads to them knowing correctly that they have the ability to contribute an effort to prevent bad things from happening to them. That they are in control of their OWN lives, their OWN destiny. Some people will always be unable to accept the concept of destiny that is controlled by someone above them. Personally, i agree with that. However this sometimes lead to a false presumption that those who have faith are ignorant. And there are those of faith that are uneducated, ignorant, blind, and just devout which from an intellectual person seems crazy and stupid. Christians that shun science and facts right in front of them set bad examples for the faith itself. I will only is once as well; if you are going to believe in something so strongly, at least have the decency to fully understand what it is you believe.

If you want it plain, here it is; neither science or the Christian scholars have ever found tangible proof that gives way to once side or the other. The is nothing in all the modern laws and formulas of Physics that disproves the concept of a deity or Intelligent Design. There is also nothing that the Pope, his researchers, or any religious scholar has discovered or announced that proves they are correct either. The fact is, it may come as a shock to some both atheists and believers that science has indeed provided evidence that heaven/God/a higher power could possibly exist. I am a truth seeker, and I firmly believe in science, logic, and facts. my point in this is to PROVE that no of you are right, no one has the answer, and until that day comes, i will be vigilantly seeking more knowledge. If you want to get into detail as to how exactly I know that neither side is right, email me.
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21-12-2012, 09:17 AM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
Not sure we'll see you again, but welcome anyway.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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21-12-2012, 09:22 AM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  I believe I have the psychological answer to why some individuals who do not believe in God- and i do mean specifically The God of the Christian faith- press so aggressively that He does not exist. This topic is designed to to address that specific argument. However, it may be extended to other arguments. Its main purpose, my main purpose, is to explain to Christians why those who harbor latent or even evident ill will to faith in a higher power. It is not my goal to offend atheists or theists, nor anyone else. More strongly i will say that it is not intended to give Christians or those who DO have faith a reason to justify their beliefs. My hope is that this essay will bring more peace to civil, and logistical discussions on the debate between science and religion.

My theory is this; those who harbor such a strong objection to the existence of God are those whom have had certain events unfold in their lives. These events can be anything; something or a number of somethings that happen to that affect the view point of the individual. For a general example, atheists often ask how a person can believe in God when something horrible happens to them or their family members. This perfectly logical question is the result of a person who simply does not understand and is not educated properly in what the Christian faith teaches. I will say this once; In order to question a faiths concept, you logically MUST have a working knowledge of THAT faith. It should be clear that statement alone should be addressed in a different thread, but the gist is that the bible teaches that bad things happen, not because it is the will of God, but because of the will of Satan. It teaches that Satan is a real and dangerous threat. God can only offer protection from evil if you give yourself to him and Jesus Christ. More on that later.

Lets get back to examples of why some people argue God doesn't exist. Many people only believe in what they can prove, and science is the way to seek many truths and answers. I am an advocate. I was raised Christian al my life, and was a believer as a child. As I grew older i began to question the credibility of my faith, but never disowned it. Kids who are told that when bad things happen its the will of God, will of course inevitably find more logical and REAL answer to why bad things happen. This eventually leads to them knowing correctly that they have the ability to contribute an effort to prevent bad things from happening to them. That they are in control of their OWN lives, their OWN destiny. Some people will always be unable to accept the concept of destiny that is controlled by someone above them. Personally, i agree with that. However this sometimes lead to a false presumption that those who have faith are ignorant. And there are those of faith that are uneducated, ignorant, blind, and just devout which from an intellectual person seems crazy and stupid. Christians that shun science and facts right in front of them set bad examples for the faith itself. I will only is once as well; if you are going to believe in something so strongly, at least have the decency to fully understand what it is you believe.

If you want it plain, here it is; neither science or the Christian scholars have ever found tangible proof that gives way to once side or the other. The is nothing in all the modern laws and formulas of Physics that disproves the concept of a deity or Intelligent Design. There is also nothing that the Pope, his researchers, or any religious scholar has discovered or announced that proves they are correct either. The fact is, it may come as a shock to some both atheists and believers that science has indeed provided evidence that heaven/God/a higher power could possibly exist. I am a truth seeker, and I firmly believe in science, logic, and facts. my point in this is to PROVE that no of you are right, no one has the answer, and until that day comes, i will be vigilantly seeking more knowledge. If you want to get into detail as to how exactly I know that neither side is right, email me.


There is simply no evidence for the existence of any gods, spirits, ghosts, etc.

You are welcome to argue that there is no disproof, but that is so very weak an argument.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-12-2012, 09:24 AM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
Ill be around. I'm interested in seeing what people have to present to my findings. Additionally, I'd like to see people debating for the sake of debate itself. Its an art. I figure this is something i can practice My talent for retorts and refuting skills. I'm a journalism major, minoring in law and English. Sharpening my skills is essential Smile
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21-12-2012, 09:26 AM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2012 03:54 PM by Vera.)
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
Did someone put something in the eggnog? Or is such an influx normal for this time of year? It's just that people can give them more attention when they're not coming in droves Drinking Beverage

Also, I have a theory of my own - people who insist that everyone agree with them and the way they view the world, have serious issues, be they doubts or something else.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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21-12-2012, 09:27 AM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
Welcome aboard. I hope you enjoy your time here.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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21-12-2012, 09:31 AM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
Welcome to TTA.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  If you want it plain, here it is; neither science or the Christian scholars have ever found tangible proof that gives way to once side or the other. The is nothing in all the modern laws and formulas of Physics that disproves the concept of a deity or Intelligent Design. There is also nothing that the Pope, his researchers, or any religious scholar has discovered or announced that proves they are correct either.
Biological evolution is very strong evidence against Intelligent Design. With that said, you are correct, there is neither evidence for, nor evidence against the existence of any supernatural deity.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  The fact is, it may come as a shock to some both atheists and believers that science has indeed provided evidence that heaven/God/a higher power could possibly exist.
Care to elaborate on this?

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21-12-2012, 09:36 AM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
How is no disproof less an argument than no proof? I'm an amateur science buff. I've seen many theories that provide the possible existence of Intelligent Design. They are just theories though. i do not believe in them myself. Theories do not prove anything. They are just theories. The only thing I believe in is physics. I will not deny a faith if physics allows its POSSIBLE existence. But I wont believe the faith is real either. Does it exist? I do not know. and neither do you. I am simply after the truth, and won't make up my mind until I find it. And why should I? why MUST I take a side? What if i take a side, but then later i am proven wrong? I don't like to be wrong haha. So I will not give the answer. Many brilliant minds of today choose this path. The reason I'm here is to observe why people believe what they cannot prove, both religious people and atheists. It is amusing, and brain stimulating. Smile
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21-12-2012, 10:06 AM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2012 10:10 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
(21-12-2012 09:36 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  How is no disproof less an argument than no proof?
It would be an argument from ignorance to say that because X hasn't been proven to be wrong (yet), it is therefore true and vice versa. My lack of belief in supernatural deities is founded on the lack of evidence for their existence.

(21-12-2012 09:36 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  I'm an amateur science buff. I've seen many theories that provide the possible existence of Intelligent Design.
Care to cite an example of such a theory?

(21-12-2012 09:36 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  They are just theories though.i do not believe in them myself. Theories do not prove anything. They are just theories.
This is a blatant and unfortunately very common misunderstanding of the term "theory" in a scientific context.

From Wikipedia:
A scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment." Scientists create scientific theories from hypotheses that have been corroborated through the scientific method, then gather evidence to test their accuracy. As with all forms of scientific knowledge, scientific theories are inductive in nature and do not make apodictic propositions; instead, they aim for predictive and explanatory force.

The strength of a scientific theory is related to the diversity of phenomena it can explain, which is measured by its ability to make falsifiable predictions with respect to those phenomena. Theories are improved as more evidence is gathered, so that accuracy in prediction improves over time. Scientists use theories as a foundation to gain further scientific knowledge, as well as to accomplish goals such as inventing technology or curing disease.

Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge. This is significantly different from the word "theory" in common usage, which implies that something is unproven or speculative.


(21-12-2012 09:36 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  The only thing I believe in is physics.
You do know that the science of physics is based on numerous theories, for instance the theory of gravity and the theory of general relativity, right?

(21-12-2012 09:36 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  I will not deny a faith if physics allows its POSSIBLE existence. But I wont believe the faith is real either.
What makes you think that physics "allow" the possible existence of a supernatural deity?

(21-12-2012 09:36 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  Does it exist? I do not know. and neither do you. I am simply after the truth, and won't make up my mind until I find it. And why should I? why MUST I take a side? What if i take a side, but then later i am proven wrong? I don't like to be wrong haha. So I will not give the answer. Many brilliant minds of today choose this path.
A large amount of atheists on here and in general are agnostic atheists; we are able to change our position once new evidence is brought forth. Until that moment, it would be irrational to believe in that for which there is no evidence.

(21-12-2012 09:36 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  The reason I'm here is to observe why people believe what they cannot prove, both religious people and atheists. It is amusing, and brain stimulating. Smile
What exactly do you think atheists believe in that they cannot prove? I get a hunch that what you're thinking of are actually gnostic atheists.

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21-12-2012, 10:27 AM
RE: Objecting the concept of a Deity
(21-12-2012 09:31 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Welcome to TTA.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  If you want it plain, here it is; neither science or the Christian scholars have ever found tangible proof that gives way to once side or the other. The is nothing in all the modern laws and formulas of Physics that disproves the concept of a deity or Intelligent Design. There is also nothing that the Pope, his researchers, or any religious scholar has discovered or announced that proves they are correct either.
Biological evolution is very strong evidence against Intelligent Design. With that said, you are correct, there is neither evidence for, nor evidence against the existence of any supernatural deity.

(21-12-2012 08:59 AM)TruthSeeker Wrote:  The fact is, it may come as a shock to some both atheists and believers that science has indeed provided evidence that heaven/God/a higher power could possibly exist.
Care to elaborate on this?
Of course. First let me explain a few basic things. Light traves at 186,282 miles per second. that seems fast to us but when compared to the scale of the cosmos, its rather sluggish. Our milky way galaxy, one of about 500 billion galaxies, is roughly 110,000 light years across. A light year is the distance light travels in one year. that means it would take 110,000 years to travel from one end of the galaxy to the other. With a combination of theoretical physics, the mathematical part, and astro-physics, the observatory part, we have been able to get an idea of the full scale of our universe. But we can only see so far. in order to see something at all, it has to emit light. but remember how light travels.If something is REALLY far away, we may not be able to see it. the light that a star emits takes time to reach our telescopes. So if we see a star that is 1,000 light years away, we are seeing that star as it was 1,000 years ago. with the hubble telescope we have seen more and more of the universe, but we have reached the limits.

For many years now, hubble has not found any new images of anything further away than 13.2 billion years away, and so from that we estimate that the universe is around 13.7 billion years old. at that time there was believe to be a singularity. An infinitely small point of infinite mass, that suddenly, for no reason we know of, expanded rapidly and in less than a few minutes created %70 of the universe. over time the universe has expanded. but the main question is, why? where does a singularity like that come from? no one has the slightest clue. at the heart of this problem is the research for black holes. they are similar in that they themselves compose of 1 infinitely small point of infinite mass. this also means that they have infinite gravity. not even light itself can escape its grasp. You see, the equation for this falls apart. Infinite anything is IMPOSSIBLE to the current understanding of the laws of physics. ITS IMPOSSIBLE. we dont know why something that CAN'T exist, does in fact exist. its maddening. No matter how many times you work the equation, the answer is infinity. In fact whats worse is that the answer is infinity, multiplied by infinity, and multiplied by infinity again, forever. Infinity times infinity, INFINITELY. We cant explain it.

One theory that scientist have that is possible is that inside a black hole is a worm hole of some kind, an entrance to other dimensions. Alternate dimensions are a thriving study in physics. The laws of physics allow for them to exist. There are many theories on how exactly these other dimensions or Parallel Universe's behave and act in a super colossal cosmos. And the math shows that they too are infinite. Well, here is my theory; matter does not just pop into existence. its against the laws of physics. the big bang had to be the result of SOMETHING. We don't know what yet, but religious scholars begin their argument there. That God or some other higher power is behind such an event. nothing else could be. If God does exist, and what the bible says about Him is true, then he is, quote, "The alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end." Well i have to say that fits the "infinite" description. His power is "Infinite", never ending. Just like the description of the singularity.

So whether its Infinite Parallel Universe's or God, no one has the answer. Both are equally without any proof. For you to pick one or the other, you have to have true "blind faith". Haha its interesting to me. Honestly I would prefer it be Infinite Universe's. I dont like the idea of the world ending, or the human race ceasing to exist. But, the FACT is no one has the slightest clue. so argue all you want. You do not have the answer.
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