Objective Morality ...
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14-02-2014, 12:25 AM
RE: Objective Morality ...
(14-02-2014 12:20 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Here we go again.

Have you read this? Chippy, myself and others on the exact same subject

Please explain why a soldier will throw him/herself onto a grenade to save their comrades.

Cheers.

I'll review the thread; short answer to your question disproves your underlying point. The soldier jumps on the grenade to help others live.

When I used the point about living creatures going into the fire what I was talking about was living creatures willfully dying even though there was no overriding reason to do so. For example, a deer just walking into flames.

Not trying to save offspring or anything. Just walking into the fire.

Which species does that?

Going back to the solder example, the soldier isn't just jumping on the grenade willy nilly; he is dying to protect his species.

Still fits into the paradigm of objective good.
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14-02-2014, 12:29 AM
RE: Objective Morality ...
(14-02-2014 12:13 AM)fmudd Wrote:  
(14-02-2014 12:11 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  This person would be psychopathic then. Morality is a non sequitur at this point. An action requires a reason. The reason people don't go around killing other people is that there is no good reason to do so.

OK, but then the question becomes why is the murder's act illegal? Why lock him up or treat him for any mental illness?

I'm sorry dude, but these arguments get tedious and pedantic as fuck and their really not worth my time, I could be learning something from a youtube video rather than argue this shit. Rolleyes

Why don't you just give a comprehensive essay on why you think that objective morality exists and therefore blah, blah, blah.......

Then we can just get to the meat of things instead going around and around. If you want I can point you towards threads that have discussed this ad nauseam, and you can take what you need from them.

edit: DLJ beat me to it, but yeah, eat your heart out.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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14-02-2014, 12:33 AM
RE: Objective Morality ...
(14-02-2014 12:29 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  I'm sorry dude, but these arguments get tedious and pedantic as fuck and their really not worth my time, I could be learning something from a youtube video rather than argue this shit. Rolleyes

Why don't you just give a comprehensive essay on why you think that objective morality exists and therefore blah, blah, blah.......

Then we can just get to the meat of things instead going around and around. If you want I can point you towards threads that have discussed this ad nauseam, and you can take what you need from them.

Heh, the basic premise would be the same, whether in small posts or one large essay; I already laid out why objective morality exists via mostly my original and subsequent posts.
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14-02-2014, 12:37 AM
RE: Objective Morality ...
(14-02-2014 12:33 AM)fmudd Wrote:  Heh, the basic premise would be the same, whether in small posts or one large essay; I already laid out why objective morality exists via mostly my original and subsequent posts.

No you didn't. You laid out why you think that these things point towards objective morality, but you haven't done your homework, so you don't get any pudding. Read through the thread you were given and report back in the morning.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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14-02-2014, 12:41 AM
RE: Objective Morality ...
(14-02-2014 12:25 AM)fmudd Wrote:  ...
Not trying to save offspring or anything. Just walking into the fire.
...

Then you should have said so.

OK, Exhibit B: Suicide.

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14-02-2014, 01:26 AM
RE: Objective Morality ...
The fact that something is morally wrong, doesn't mean is objectively morally wrong. I can be a moral relativist and say murder is bad, in a specific context.

The scenario you present of a person just killing someone out of the blue would be bad in most cases, but that doesn't make me an objectivist, it's just that the context in which the case is presented leads to the conclusion that the action is bad. Change the context, and you'll get another conclusion.

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14-02-2014, 03:45 AM
Re: RE: Objective Morality ...
(14-02-2014 12:01 AM)fmudd Wrote:  
(13-02-2014 11:57 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  What if that someone had absolutely no other means of feeding himself and was on the verge of starving to death? Would that make it a moral choice?

Let's keep the example simple; this person is committing this murder simply because the thought got into their head.

Don't add qualifiers yet; let's strictly talk about an ultra-basic murder where the person killed simply because the thought popped into their mind.

By doing that, you're taking it away from your base statement of murder is objectively bad. It's, this scenario is objectively bad. That's one example of what murder could be.

And your basis you've stated for live being objectively good is that we strive to stay alive... That's saying because it's done by all life, it's good. That's not demonstrating any objective good. I want to stay alive because I enjoy life and want others able to experience the same, that's more a selfish motive than definable as good. To define things as objectively good and bad, you need an outward base for how these are defined and separate.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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14-02-2014, 06:37 PM
RE: Objective Morality ...
Have you asked your "Christian Friend" yet?
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15-02-2014, 02:28 AM
RE: Objective Morality ...
(14-02-2014 06:37 PM)joben1 Wrote:  Have you asked your "Christian Friend" yet?

I have (fmudd is now her account, this is my own).

We both agree on Objective Morality; I just disagree with her that it can only be defended on religious grounds.

I believe there is a powerful case to be made for objective morality on purely secular grounds.
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15-02-2014, 04:29 AM
RE: Objective Morality ...
(15-02-2014 02:28 AM)tmason Wrote:  I believe there is a powerful case to be made for objective morality on purely secular grounds.

If your inability to imagine how to describe Red to a blind person is any indication, this ought to be a riot.

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