Objective Morality
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03-04-2014, 12:06 PM
RE: Objective Morality
I do not think insults help the debate at all.

Artie. There is no strong position upon which you can return. One must have an understanding of history. I mentioned earlier the moral difference between the two Romes, ancient and modern.

Ancient Rome had a martial moral code. A moral code based upon strength and a cold attitude toward death. Both of oneself and the enemy. This is why people attended the games. It was not horrifying to the populace to see people killed for sport. There was pride in the claim "We who are about to die salute you."

The people of modern Rome have what we now would consider a more refined, humanist morality and would consider the games barbaric.

Is one better than the other or simply different?

Human beings are able to frame moral values in order to support objectives. This is why there have been Nazi morals, Secular humanist morals, various religious morals etc.

This is a debate you cannot win. Too many variables both exist and have existed.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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03-04-2014, 12:29 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(03-04-2014 12:06 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Human beings are able to frame moral values in order to support objectives. This is why there have been Nazi morals, Secular humanist morals, various religious morals etc.

Ooooooooo, that's a great explanation!!!
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03-04-2014, 02:22 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(03-04-2014 11:42 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  If you are going to look into the animal kingdom for supporting your case, we must take in account the lion that kills the offspring of a rival pride in order to ensure his pride and genes prosper. It is hard wired in male lions to do this.
By evolution, an objective process.
Quote:Us humans looking at this and feeling that it is brutal and immoral does not matter one bit.
Because we are hard wired differently but by the same objective process.
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03-04-2014, 02:36 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(03-04-2014 02:22 PM)Artie Wrote:  By evolution, an objective process.
Evolution has no goal, no purpose, evolution says nothing regarding right or wrong.
Our behaviours are influenced by our genes, our beliefs on whether those behaviours are right or wrong are not influenced by our genes.
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03-04-2014, 02:49 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(03-04-2014 11:46 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  When someone views their death as an improvement of their well-being; their survival instinct is at odds with their perceived well-being. If continued survival and progress towards well-being are both objectively good, is suicide objectively good or bad?
Bad because it has negative effects on the well-being of family and friends and the whole society.
Quote:Once again, you are misusing 'objectively' fucktard. We do not all know 'objectively' that "having children in a stable loving family and relationship and stable society enhances the well-being and chances of survival for the children and everybody". While I generally agree with the sentiment, it is not an objective 'fact', nor do we all 'know' it.
So you really require some objective statistics to "know" that this is an objective fact?
(03-04-2014 06:58 AM)Artie Wrote:  Rape is immoral because it diminishes chances of survival and well-being for the victim, child and everybody. What else do you mean?
Quote:How does it diminish the survival of the victim?
Are you saying that rape doesn't diminish the well-being and survival of the victim? Just google "rape victim kills herself".
Quote:I'm asking just about rape, not any possible violence in addition to the rape; as it is possible to perform a rape on someone who is comatose or passed out without the use of excessive force.
What's the point of this comment?
Quote:In addition who's well-being is objectively more important, the victim's or the rapists? See, you can't even answer the question...
The well-being of both the victim and the rapist is important of course. Unless you think being known as a rapist enhances the well-being and survivability of the rapist? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...arges.html
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03-04-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(03-04-2014 02:36 PM)Stevil Wrote:  [quote='Artie' pid='538752' dateline='1396556575']By evolution, an objective process.
Quote:Evolution has no goal, no purpose, evolution says nothing regarding right or wrong.
It produces brains hard wired to see helping behavior as right and the opposite as wrong. "Humans are born with a hard-wired morality, a sense of good and evil is bred in the bone." http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/12/opinio...ght-wrong/
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03-04-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(03-04-2014 03:00 PM)Artie Wrote:  It produces brains hard wired to see helping behavior as right and the opposite as wrong. "Humans are born with a hard-wired morality, a sense of good and evil is bred in the bone." http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/12/opinio...ght-wrong/
You do realise that links to an opinion piece?
Opinions are different to facts.
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03-04-2014, 06:57 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(03-04-2014 07:38 AM)Artie Wrote:  
(03-04-2014 07:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I can think of many morals that do not enhance a society. For example, a tribal leader in Afghanistan recently shot his young wife in the head by way of divorse. He was morally correct according to the morals of his belief system.
But since evolution hard-wired people to see murder as immoral such behavior is objectively immoral regardless his belief system and would be punished in any society abiding by evolutionary objective morals.

Evolution has nothing at all to do with it. You are treating the theory of evolution as if it were some replacement for a theist's deity. It's patently absurd.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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03-04-2014, 07:59 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(03-04-2014 02:22 PM)Artie Wrote:  Because we are hard wired differently but by the same objective process.

Please explain how exactly the "same" *objective* process hard wires people differently. Do you have ANY idea how utterly STUPID that sentence is ?
If it's the SAME, and "objective", then the results should be the same.
Jesus H. Fucking Christ. April Fools Day is past.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-04-2014, 08:52 PM
RE: Objective Morality
Who is being addressed in this post?

(03-04-2014 06:57 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(03-04-2014 07:38 AM)Artie Wrote:  But since evolution hard-wired people to see murder as immoral such behavior is objectively immoral regardless his belief system and would be punished in any society abiding by evolutionary objective morals.

Evolution has nothing at all to do with it. You are treating the theory of evolution as if it were some replacement for a theist's deity. It's patently absurd.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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