Objective Morality
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28-03-2014, 08:19 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(28-03-2014 08:14 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(28-03-2014 06:44 PM)TheThinkingChristian Wrote:  Eh... I'd be happy to hear why that isn't true. Like I said, it's the first thing I wrote. And it was a while back... Actually, I suppose subjective morality would exist huh? Thanks for pointing that out! I still don't believe there can be objective morality without God though.

Because it's a bullshit unsupported assertion-by-fiat.

Billions of Buddhists, Hindus, atheists and others who don't believe in your fairy tale monster have far higher moral standards than all of you xtards put together.

There's no such thing as "objective" morality.The phrase is meaningless word salad.

And xtardianity's blood-drenched track record puts the lie to any claim that it holds any sort of moral high ground whatsoever.
Taq you know I love you. And I even love you because you're effing crazy, but can you try to hold back the "tard" word just a little. Please just for me Heart

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Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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28-03-2014, 08:21 PM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2014 08:26 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Objective Morality
I have a question for the first paragraph.

Objective morality is a standard of right and wrong that is unchanging. This standard exists and persists throughout time regardless of outside or opposing factors such as culture or religion. The “what” of this question is actually quite easy to answer and so the more difficult question becomes the most important and it is this: Is objective morality a reality?

On "objective morality" as you define it as existing outside of "opposing factors". For the moment I'm going to accept this definition, because I'm not too concerned with it.

But using this definition of "objective morality", and even hypothetically accepting the existence of the "god" concept, let me ask you to consider this.

What if a "god" did exist, (whatever that would even mean for "god" to exist) but this "god" thing never decided to "create" anything. No people, no animals, no earth, no universe, no matter, no energy...nothing. Just a detached cluster of thoughts that has no reality, which is near as I can figure the "god" concept to be.

But the point is, there is only this "god" thing, and nothing else. What would "objective morality" mean outside of creatures to comprehend it, or more to the point, for them to be able to do it to be able to preform "morality" and/or "immorality"?

In a world/universe devoid of such creatures, in this case, humans, or even any life for that matter, what could "objective morality" even mean? In a world/universe in which even the concept of life or humans is never even conceived of, let alone made reality, then what could it, "objective morality", mean in a non-existence voidful universe?

It seems to me, that even for "objective morality" to be a real thing, (which we aren't even to that point of acceptance of this concept yet) it would remain contingent on the existence of, us, to make it "flesh".

It does not seem to be possible to exist outside of us, even if we assume the premise that it exist. We need to exist in order for morality to exist, it would seem.

Take it one step further, and remove not only all things, matter, the universe, and so on. But also remove the "god" concept. There is truly nothingness, (whatever that could even mean) so what, in this nothingness, would morality mean without something for which morality to mean anything in application to, for it to act on?

"Objective morality" does not seem possible of existing, independently, as a condition of reality or the universe (or whatever this force is supposed to be) outside of...something. There for it cannot be regardless or opposing forces, and thereby cannot be existent based on your definition used.


Your thoughts?

...
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28-03-2014, 08:21 PM
RE: Objective Morality
I like Taq for his plumage. I'm superficial like that. Tongue
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28-03-2014, 08:21 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(28-03-2014 08:19 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(28-03-2014 08:14 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Because it's a bullshit unsupported assertion-by-fiat.

Billions of Buddhists, Hindus, atheists and others who don't believe in your fairy tale monster have far higher moral standards than all of you xtards put together.

There's no such thing as "objective" morality.The phrase is meaningless word salad.

And xtardianity's blood-drenched track record puts the lie to any claim that it holds any sort of moral high ground whatsoever.
Taq you know I love you. And I even love you because you're effing crazy, but can you try to hold back the "tard" word just a little. Please just for me Heart

I'll require a Booby Flash for that. Heh. Tongue


But seriously, oh, all right, but I might need reminding if I forget.... Hobo

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28-03-2014, 08:30 PM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2014 08:45 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Objective Morality
We know from Anthropology 101 where human customs come from, and in general why they arise. One of the fallacies religionists claim is that without their deity, morality would not exist. The fact is that EVERY SINGLE commandment, injunction and law in the Babble existed already in ancient Near Eastern culture, and was imported into the Babble. Religion TOOK their laws from existing culture. Religion GAVE nothing to culture.

Secondly, religionists cannot answer Euthyphro's Dilemma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma
The question raises many questions, including the nature and origins of Reality. Even IF something is "good" because the deity is the origin of "the good",
that means as long as the deity existed, "evil", (or the opposite of "the good") existed also. Is the deity the origin of evil ?
If not where, (before it created humans), did evil come from ? It HAD to exist already, if the "good" is from the deity.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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28-03-2014, 08:49 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(28-03-2014 08:21 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(28-03-2014 08:19 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Taq you know I love you. And I even love you because you're effing crazy, but can you try to hold back the "tard" word just a little. Please just for me Heart

I'll require a Booby Flash for that. Heh. Tongue


But seriously, oh, all right, but I might need reminding if I forget.... Hobo

Thank you Hug

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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28-03-2014, 09:27 PM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2014 10:09 PM by TheThinkingChristian.)
RE: Objective Morality
(28-03-2014 06:48 PM)DLJ Wrote:  What Is This Objective Morality That You Speak Of Which You Speak?

I'll get back to you when I've read the whole thing but when the title gets me bristling... !

Tongue

Needless to say that the content topic has arisen on numerous occasions before. Here's a sample, if you'd like to read it.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ity--21214

Oh man! That's a horrible mistake that I hadn't even thought of lol. Seriously, I'm going to change it now. Right now. And I'm usually great with grammar. Crap.

Edit: Changed it but it has to be approved by editor people...
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28-03-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(28-03-2014 06:54 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If a child less than 2 yrs old is starving to death right before your eyes, what is the objective moral action to take ?

If you wait but only 1 minute, you will get your answer from your objectively moral law giver.

The answer is: "Do nothing"

I will not go through your entire article and pick it apart piece by piece. I'm sure your gullible christian audience will love it.

How would the answer be to do nothing? That is crazy. The answer wouldn't be do nothing. Not that I would have to ask... I am an adult capable of making decisions. Why would I wait one minute to help a starving child? Or a starving anyone? I don't see where you are getting your assertion.
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28-03-2014, 09:32 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(28-03-2014 06:58 PM)Charis Wrote:  Ahhh, looks like DLC just provided 35 pages of discussion. Tongue

Lol yes and I'll be checking it out soon Smile
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28-03-2014, 09:34 PM
RE: Objective Morality
(28-03-2014 07:02 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Without god there can be no objective morality=there is no objective morality.
Objective morality is not a real thing...am I getting this right?

Yeah, I don't believe it is a real thing if there is no God or some sort of eternally existent being. I'm not necessarily speaking of the Christian God here. Just that for there to be objective moral values and duties, there must be an objective, eternally existent being.
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