Objective Morality
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
07-04-2014, 07:37 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 05:18 AM)morondog Wrote:  So far you haven't demonstrated an objective morality by the way. You're trying very hard to define *your own* morality as *the* morality which is objective, as far as I can see.
I am demonstrating that evolutionary morality is objective morality and that our morality as social animals is the evolutionary morality we evolved as we joined our forces and started cooperating in groups.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2014, 07:41 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 05:34 AM)sporehux Wrote:  I don't see the point in intellectually dismissing the concept of "Objective Morality" when the theists are defining inherited traits/instinct and social/environmental conditioning as "objective morals".
Do theists do that? I thought theists defined "objective morals" as anything their god says is moral.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2014, 07:44 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 06:11 AM)Banjo Wrote:  William Laine Craig seems one of the best the theists have. And I consider him a moronic simpleton.

Give it up and spare us all.
Banjo, why don't you start living by the Golden Rule and stop insulting everybody? How would you feel if somebody called you a "moronic simpleton"? What is your morality?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2014, 08:06 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 07:37 AM)Artie Wrote:  I am demonstrating that evolutionary morality is objective morality and that our morality as social animals is the evolutionary morality we evolved as we joined our forces and started cooperating in groups.

When do you plan on starting to demonstrate that ?
Let us know.
K then ?

The fact is, as anyone whoever cracked an Anthropology 101 text knows, there are virtually countess ways that countless cultures evolved to promote survival. NONE of them involved Jebus or the gods. Some of them may have referenced them in their rule sets, but they ALL originated, (as ALL animal survival models do) entirely from natural origins.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2014, 08:14 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 06:12 AM)DLJ Wrote:  “The term “morality” can be used either:

1. descriptively to refer to some codes of conduct put forward by a society or,
a) some other group, such as a religion, or
b) accepted by an individual for her own behavior or

2. normatively to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons.

What “morality” is taken to refer to plays a crucial, although often unacknowledged, role in formulating ethical theories? To take “morality” to refer to an actually existing code of conduct put forward by a society results in a denial that there is a universal morality, one that applies to all human beings. … “Morality” has also been taken to refer to any code of conduct that a person or group takes as most important.

Among those who use “morality” normatively, all hold that “morality” refers to a code of conduct that applies to all who can understand it and can govern their behavior by it...”
Yes that is a further elaboration of my definition.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2014, 08:19 AM
RE: Objective Morality
What is called "morality" are norms which are learned values, and totally relative to the culture one buys into.

The gods love killing. In fact they promote it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/midd...story.html

BTW, WL Craig is a moronic simpleton.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2014, 08:22 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 08:14 AM)Artie Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 06:12 AM)DLJ Wrote:  “The term “morality” can be used either:

1. descriptively to refer to some codes of conduct put forward by a society or,
a) some other group, such as a religion, or
b) accepted by an individual for her own behavior or

2. normatively to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons.

What “morality” is taken to refer to plays a crucial, although often unacknowledged, role in formulating ethical theories? To take “morality” to refer to an actually existing code of conduct put forward by a society results in a denial that there is a universal morality, one that applies to all human beings. … “Morality” has also been taken to refer to any code of conduct that a person or group takes as most important.

Among those who use “morality” normatively, all hold that “morality” refers to a code of conduct that applies to all who can understand it and can govern their behavior by it...”
Yes that is a further elaboration of my definition.

Cool. So therefore, you are denying that there is a universal (objective) morality.

Awesome. We agree.

Thumbsup

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like DLJ's post
07-04-2014, 08:25 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 07:41 AM)Artie Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 05:34 AM)sporehux Wrote:  I don't see the point in intellectually dismissing the concept of "Objective Morality" when the theists are defining inherited traits/instinct and social/environmental conditioning as "objective morals".
Do theists do that? I thought theists defined "objective morals" as anything their god says is moral.

Yes, if you dig the examples out of them, they can prove objective morals to themselves as something more tangible then circular "the bible says so" proofs.

They assume the innate "nice" behaviour of animals as a god given moral code.
That is their definition of objective morals.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2014, 08:28 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 07:33 AM)Artie Wrote:  Moral rich guys don't need convincing.

But this is at odds with what you previously said, that *survival* is what's moral. You haven't answered the question, do you think a billionaire, lets make him a billionaire warlord, so he's evil as hell, do you think his kids have a better or worse survival chance than a beggar? Let's make the beggar the meekest, most vegetarian beggar that has ever existed.

You still haven't proven a link between evolution and the golden rule by the way. It might well be that that is a very good survival strategy. But it's not the only one, so to say that it's objective and a foundation for morality is a bridge too far IMO.

I think you're just saying that anyone who acts *as you think is right* is moral. (Which is nice and subjective, so no luck with objective morality yet hmm?)

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes morondog's post
07-04-2014, 08:31 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 08:06 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The fact is, as anyone whoever cracked an Anthropology 101 text knows, there are virtually countess ways that countless cultures evolved to promote survival. NONE of them involved Jebus or the gods. Some of them may have referenced them in their rule sets, but they ALL originated, (as ALL animal survival models do) entirely from natural origins.
If you mean that evolutionary objective moral codes such as the Golden Rule were adopted by religious authority figures such as Jesus Christ of course they were. He understood that living by this code was good for well-being and survival, he even told people that they would have eternal survival if they lived by this code. What better way to encourage people to live by it?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: