Objective Morality
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07-04-2014, 10:05 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 09:29 AM)Artie Wrote:  I am saying that the Golden Rule is one objective moral code that evolved because people who lived by it were more likely to survive.


You don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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07-04-2014, 10:23 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 09:29 AM)Artie Wrote:  No I don't. I am saying that the Golden Rule is one objective moral code that evolved because people who lived by it were more likely to survive. That all agree on it is not necessary for it to be objectively right. Any rational person would agree on it. But all aren't rational.

It isn't dependent on any one individual's opinion. It isn't dependent that all agree on it either.

So the golden rule exists outside of humanity? Outside of the Earth? It sounds like you are applying human standards like "rational" to it, which would make it subjective.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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07-04-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 09:29 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Actually you have no clue what code I live by.
That is why I asked which code(s) you live by. Can you answer?
Quote:Calling out stupidity on the internet is hardly "not living by the Golden Rule". If I were making such stupid assertions as I see here, I would want my stupidity called out, so I guess I DO live by the "Golden Rule, now don't I ? The very fact we do not agree what that "Rule" even is, means it's not "objective", now doesn't it ?
You don't know the Golden Rule? It's "One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself." Your point taken. If you like to be insulted and called names you should insult others and call them names. Have you tried this strategy in a social setting to check whether it promotes well-being and survival or not?
Quote:Tell ya what. You define "objective moral code" in PRECISELY defined terms, and maybe I'll play this stupid game.
Objective is "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions". Evolution, that doesn't have any "personal feelings or opinions", evolved the moral code the Golden Rule via natural selection. Those who gathered in groups and lived by the Golden Rule were more likely to survive.
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07-04-2014, 10:29 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 10:05 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 09:29 AM)Artie Wrote:  I am saying that the Golden Rule is one objective moral code that evolved because people who lived by it were more likely to survive.


You don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about.
Laugh out load
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07-04-2014, 10:56 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 10:23 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  So the golden rule exists outside of humanity?
Of course. It applies to all evolved social animals living in groups where it gives a survival advantage. Even a vampire bat full of blood will share it with hungry or sick roost mates. That is the Golden Rule.
Quote:Outside of the Earth?
It applies to all aliens living in communities where it would give a survival advantage.
Quote:It sounds like you are applying human standards like "rational" to it, which would make it subjective.
Then simply pretend there are no humans. The vampire bat will still display this behavior hard wired into their brains by evolution.
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07-04-2014, 11:20 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 10:23 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 09:29 AM)Artie Wrote:  No I don't. I am saying that the Golden Rule is one objective moral code that evolved because people who lived by it were more likely to survive. That all agree on it is not necessary for it to be objectively right. Any rational person would agree on it. But all aren't rational.

It isn't dependent on any one individual's opinion. It isn't dependent that all agree on it either.

So the golden rule exists outside of humanity? Outside of the Earth? It sounds like you are applying human standards like "rational" to it, which would make it subjective.

Works for lions and zebras!


Oh, wait...

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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07-04-2014, 11:21 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 10:56 AM)Artie Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 10:23 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  So the golden rule exists outside of humanity?
Of course. It applies to all evolved social animals living in groups where it gives a survival advantage. Even a vampire bat full of blood will share it with hungry or sick roost mates. That is the Golden Rule.
Quote:Outside of the Earth?
It applies to all aliens living in communities where it would give a survival advantage.
Quote:It sounds like you are applying human standards like "rational" to it, which would make it subjective.
Then simply pretend there are no humans. The vampire bat will still display this behavior hard wired into their brains by evolution.

1. If survival didn't matter, would the golden rule still exist?
2. Does the golden rule exist where there is no life?
3. Does the golden rule exist among non-living things, like rocks?
4. If group survival is the key motivator, would banishing a human sick with an incurable virus be adhering to the golden rule?

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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07-04-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 08:47 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Ohmy Really? After all these pages, you have no idea?

I'm sceptical.

I'm thinking that the problem lies in the defi ition of 'objective'. Right?
Well, you write "universal (objective) morality." What does this mean? That universal is the same as objective? Here are three definitions of "objective":

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/objective
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/objective
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/objective

None of them mention anything about something objective needing to be universal or that objective is the same as universal.
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07-04-2014, 11:36 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 11:21 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  1. If survival didn't matter, would the golden rule still exist?
Would need more details to answer that. Such as whose survival and how they live.
Quote:2. Does the golden rule exist where there is no life?
No. It is a moral code evolved among organisms living in communities.
Quote:3. Does the golden rule exist among non-living things, like rocks?
No. Rocks don't cooperate in social communities.
Quote:4. If group survival is the key motivator, would banishing a human sick with an incurable virus be adhering to the golden rule?
Not possible to answer without more details of the particular case.
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07-04-2014, 11:42 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2014 11:59 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Objective Morality
(07-04-2014 10:26 AM)Artie Wrote:  Objective is "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions".


Why didn't you use "of, relating to, or denoting a case of nouns and pronouns used as the object of a transitive verb or a preposition" when you were desperately Googling the word "objective"and copy/pasting the very first random irrelevant definition you find?

https://www.google.com/search?q=objectiv...hannel=new

objective
1.
(of a person or their judgment)
not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
"historians try to be objective and impartial"synonyms: impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, nonpartisan, disinterested, neutral, uninvolved, even-handed, equitable, fair, fair-minded, just, open-minded, dispassionate, detached, neutral More"I was hoping to get an objective and pragmatic report"



Quote:Evolution, that doesn't have any "personal feelings or opinions", evolved the moral code the Golden Rule via natural selection. Those who gathered in groups and lived by the Golden Rule were more likely to survive.

You call that logic?

[Image: 105217.gif]

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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