Objective Morality
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09-04-2014, 12:29 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(08-04-2014 11:44 PM)Artie Wrote:  ...
subjective or objective opinion
...

I'm not convinced there is such a thing as an objective opinion.

Do you mean... non-partisan, unbiased?

Consider

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09-04-2014, 12:32 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(08-04-2014 03:00 PM)Impulse Wrote:  What you are missing is evolution doesn't have feelings, thoughts, perceptions, or prejudices and it therefore doesn't even have the possiblity of being influenced by them. It's just not in the playing field with objectivity and subjectivity - those are only in the realm of living humans.
Subjective is defined as "relating to the way a person experiences things in his or her own mind: based on feelings or opinions rather than facts" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subjective

Objective is defined as: "2. Having actual existence or reality." ... "1. Something that actually exists." http://www.thefreedictionary.com/objective and doesn't necessarily require a person!
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09-04-2014, 12:53 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(09-04-2014 12:29 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(08-04-2014 11:44 PM)Artie Wrote:  ...
subjective or objective opinion
...

I'm not convinced there is such a thing as an objective opinion.

Do you mean... non-partisan, unbiased?

Consider
"In my subjective opinion the earth is flat and stationary and 6000 years old but based on all the observational objective evidence we have my objective opinion is that the earth is a globe and orbits the sun and is billions of years old." Does this work?
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09-04-2014, 01:08 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(09-04-2014 12:53 AM)Artie Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 12:29 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I'm not convinced there is such a thing as an objective opinion.

Do you mean... non-partisan, unbiased?

Consider
"In my subjective opinion the earth is flat and stationary and 6000 years old but based on all the observational objective evidence we have my objective opinion is that the earth is a globe and orbits the sun and is billions of years old." Does this work?

Nope. Confusion of 'facts' and 'opinions'.

Correction:
"In my subjective opinion the earth is flat and stationary and 6000 years old but based on all the observational objective evidence we have, my subjective objective opinion is that the earth is a globe and orbits the sun and is billions of years old."

Any time, no need to thank me. Big Grin

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09-04-2014, 01:11 AM
RE: Objective Morality
@Stevil regarding your post number 446:

You appear to think that for something to be objectively right or wrong it would have to be universal and apply in all circumstances and at all times. For example inflicting pain. But why?

Inflicting pain on another person if he doesn't want to be inflicted pain upon is wrong because that would lead to him and/or his friends inflicting pain on you in return which would lead to less well-being and chances of survival for all concerned and we have an objectively evolutionary produced procreation instinct and want to produce life instead of taking away life.

If you both are masochists inflicting pain on the other is perfectly moral because he wants you to because it leads to his well-being and doesn't endanger survival.
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09-04-2014, 01:22 AM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2014 01:35 AM by Artie.)
RE: Objective Morality
(09-04-2014 01:08 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Correction:
"In my subjective opinion the earth is flat and stationary and 6000 years old but based on all the observational objective evidence we have, my subjective objective opinion is that the earth is a globe and orbits the sun and is billions of years old."

Any time, no need to thank me. Big Grin
Big Grin If you feed the objective evidence into an objective computer would the answer the computer comes up with be subjective or objective? If a person pretends to be a computer and reads the objective evidence and comes up with the same answer as the computer would it be his subjective or objective opinion?
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09-04-2014, 01:41 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(09-04-2014 01:22 AM)Artie Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 01:08 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Correction:
"In my subjective opinion the earth is flat and stationary and 6000 years old but based on all the observational objective evidence we have, my subjective objective opinion is that the earth is a globe and orbits the sun and is billions of years old."

Any time, no need to thank me. Big Grin
Big Grin If you feed the objective evidence into an objective computer would the answer the computer comes up with be subjective or objective? If a person pretends to be a computer and reads the objective evidence and comes up with the same answer as the computer would it be his subjective or objective opinion?

Computers do not currently have the ability to fit a model to evidence themselves. Even if the computer did, it would still only be the computer's best guess. As such subjective.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-04-2014, 02:16 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(09-04-2014 01:41 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 01:22 AM)Artie Wrote:  Big Grin If you feed the objective evidence into an objective computer would the answer the computer comes up with be subjective or objective? If a person pretends to be a computer and reads the objective evidence and comes up with the same answer as the computer would it be his subjective or objective opinion?

Computers do not currently have the ability to fit a model to evidence themselves. Even if the computer did, it would still only be the computer's best guess. As such subjective.

Ah yes, indeed... computing objectivity Laughat

The process is objective but the programmer may not be e.g.

IF draw Mohammed
THEN burn embassy Big Grin

Maybe if I further modify your earlier statement, it might be more obvious:

"I used to hold the belief that the earth was flat and stationary and 6000 years old but based on all the observational objective evidence we have, my current belief is that the earth is a globe and orbits the sun and is billions of years old."

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09-04-2014, 02:23 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(09-04-2014 01:11 AM)Artie Wrote:  ...
want to produce life instead of taking away life.
...

Artie,

Just out of interest, what makes you think that human life is a good thing?

Do you have a crystal ball?

Tongue

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09-04-2014, 02:26 AM
RE: Objective Morality
(09-04-2014 01:22 AM)Artie Wrote:  If you feed the objective evidence into an objective computer would the answer the computer comes up with be subjective or objective? If a person pretends to be a computer and reads the objective evidence and comes up with the same answer as the computer would it be his subjective or objective opinion?
I have an honors degree in Computer science, have been working professionally with computers for over 20 years and I have never once thought of the output from running a program to be the computer's opinion.

Generally the types of computing I have been involved in, we run the same program, with the same inputs and variable and we get the same output (barring any technical glitches i.e. out of memory, out of disk space, timeouts etc). Doesn't matter if we run it on a different node of a muti-node cluster, the same outcome everytime (This would be an objective outcome).

However, if it were the case that we ran the same program, same input, same variables on Node A and got outcome X but ran it on Node B and got outcome Y then that could be deemed a subjective outcome. It would be subjective because the outcome is subject to which Node you ran the program on.
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