Objectivism - questions and discussion
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30-10-2011, 05:33 PM
RE: Objectivism - questions and discussion
Just one thing Zatamon. what do you mean you can't step out of yourself and review your actions? I learned how to do that at 6 years old when it was kinda forced on me. the hard part for me was learning to keep a focus on me. Generally if you're that outwardly focused you end up dead by your lack of concern for personal welfare, but I had to admit to myself the need of greed in order to keep from dying. the economy i was wanting to fight was the economy of energy. (The kind that is fought over by death and devouring not pieces of paper)

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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30-10-2011, 05:58 PM
 
RE: Objectivism - questions and discussion
(30-10-2011 05:33 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Just one thing Zatamon. what do you mean you can't step out of yourself and review your actions?

What I actually said was:

Quote:Objectivism’s most serious fault is that it is not objective. The word ‘objective’ implies that you can step outside of yourself and look back. Obviously, you can’t do that.

What I meant was:

... that none of us can be truly objective. It is like asking a computer that has several bugs in its diagnostic software to run a full battery of tests on itself in order to find the bugs.

We are the product of our heritage and our environment. Both of those influence our judgment on what kind of products we are. Many of us don’t even speak the same language, not by grammar and vocabulary, but by culture and world view.

Our values here in the west are totally incomprehensible to a Buddhist in the Himalayas, a Bantu in Africa, an Inuit in northern Canada or a Russian peasant in the Ural mountains.

We talk about wanting to liberate Afghan women from having to wear the burka. I know an Afghan woman who is proud of wearing a burka in public and not running around practically naked on the beeches like some of our western idols. For me (and for most of you, I am sure), her wanting to wear the burka in public is as incomprehensible as my enjoying computer adventure games is, for her. My son hates eating in public restaurants, because he feels that eating is a very private, personal thing and can't understand why his parents enjoy the same thing he detests. So much for objective values.

Ayn Rand talked about material wealth as the purpose of creativity – I know many for whom material wealth is totally unimportant and value clan loyalty over anything else.

Rand’s ‘Objectivism’ reeks of western arrogance of wanting to create a universal value system for all of humanity. The same humanity that has no idea where it is coming from and where it is going, what the meaning of their life, if any, should, or even could, be.

We are tiny amoebas, stuck to the surface of this pale blue dot, crawling about, talking about objective reality out there, when we can’t even peek outside our inherited insane box of domination, greed and gluttony.
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30-10-2011, 06:24 PM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2011 06:29 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Objectivism - questions and discussion
I do agree with your opinion on rand, I perhaps will never understand how people can't understand others better. What's so hard to understand about the burka? It's very normal to wear a burka in Afghanistan and not wearing it would be quite odd. That's like a 20 year old girl wearing a bra to a club =p

I'll try to be a bit more inspiring later I'm back though >.>

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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30-10-2011, 06:31 PM
 
RE: Objectivism - questions and discussion
(30-10-2011 06:24 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  I'll try to be a bit more inspiring later I'm back though >.>

Welcome back, Lilith, you are always inspiring, in a refreshingly unique way. Smile
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02-11-2011, 11:49 PM
RE: Objectivism - questions and discussion
(30-10-2011 05:33 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Just one thing Zatamon. what do you mean you can't step out of yourself and review your actions?

Ever hear of the multiverse? My "devil inside" got imagination, I tell you what! (considered review of interactions spawned new universe from all options, where I was only "locally wrong" but would never know) Big Grin

Thing I like about naive philosophy over formal philosophy is that the naive version communicates better, IMHO.

For instance, I object! We are subjects, not objects. Case closed. Cool

Science tends to "preach to gospel of objectivity" (and gets stuck on considerations like multiverse and decoherence - which is fine 'cause mainstream science is of necessity slow and conservative) so I ain't hearing that gospel, I'm restating gospel by saying science is about what works in reality...

I don't know Ayn from Eve - never read her stuff 'cause there was always something I didn't like about her... so I'll let Zatamon do my thinking for me in that area. Big Grin

If you're an atheist and are looking for a philosophy that works, I'm building Chaotic Determinism from the ground up - build it better than I can, you can publish and get famous, and I'll keep on loving my Gwynnies. (win/win in foundation) Tongue

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