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Objectivity
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21-10-2013, 01:07 PM
Objectivity
I'm sure that most people here consider themselves to be objective people, I know I do. However, I don't think that anyone is completely objective, I think objectivity is a sliding scale. Some of us are mostly objective, some are never objective, but no-one can reach 100%.

In line with this here is a little dilemma from one of my favourite TV shows (Torchwood) that I may have posted somewhere before (apologies if so), that may test how purely rational you can remain. It's one of those "what would you do" scenarios.

You are the Prime Minister/President/whatever of your country. You are contacted by an alien species. This species confirms to you beyond a doubt that they have technology far in advance of our own. They have a simple demand of you, they want you to select and hand over 10% of the children in your country to them, or they will destroy your country entirely. You can comply and they will leave (though you only have their word they won't return), or you can declare war but the only target you have is one alien that has actually landed on Earth in a Government building (the rest are on a command station orbiting Earth somewhere but have sufficiently advanced technology that you cannot even detect where it is).

Do you accept their deal (bear in mind in this scenario you are in charge, if you cannot decide then nothing gets done and the alien attack, there is no middle ground)?

If you do accept the deal how do you select your 10%, and how do you deal with the aftermath?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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21-10-2013, 01:27 PM
RE: Objectivity
Sure...send all the Mormon and JW kids. They'll never return....

Do I need to mention I'm being sarcastic? Drinking Beverage


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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21-10-2013, 01:27 PM
RE: Objectivity
(21-10-2013 01:07 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  I'm sure that most people here consider themselves to be objective people, I know I do. However, I don't think that anyone is completely objective, I think objectivity is a sliding scale. Some of us are mostly objective, some are never objective, but no-one can reach 100%.

In line with this here is a little dilemma from one of my favourite TV shows (Torchwood) that I may have posted somewhere before (apologies if so), that may test how purely rational you can remain. It's one of those "what would you do" scenarios.

You are the Prime Minister/President/whatever of your country. You are contacted by an alien species. This species confirms to you beyond a doubt that they have technology far in advance of our own. They have a simple demand of you, they want you to select and hand over 10% of the children in your country to them, or they will destroy your country entirely. You can comply and they will leave (though you only have their word they won't return), or you can declare war but the only target you have is one alien that has actually landed on Earth in a Government building (the rest are on a command station orbiting Earth somewhere but have sufficiently advanced technology that you cannot even detect where it is).

Do you accept their deal (bear in mind in this scenario you are in charge, if you cannot decide then nothing gets done and the alien attack, there is no middle ground)?

If you do accept the deal how do you select your 10%, and how do you deal with the aftermath?

I would say no. It might be catastrophic but it is better than the alternative. The way I see it this is a trap because once you agree to this the Aliens now have control over you. Especially if this deal is kept quiet the threat of publicly revealing your compliance with it would make it impossible to refuse any further demands. You have just turned humanity into a vassal state on the verge of a slave state. Refusing the deal calls their bluff if they can indeed destroy the earth then there was nothing stopping them from doing so once they got whatever it was they wanted in the first place. However if it was a bluff on their part you have just prevented the destruction of the future of humanity.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-10-2013, 01:31 PM
RE: Objectivity
(21-10-2013 01:27 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Sure...send all the Mormon and JW kids. They'll never return....

Do I need to mention I'm being sarcastic? Drinking Beverage

Didn't get the sarcasm at first. I was like "wtf, MSBB practically has a stroke on Skype at the most benign decisions in the mafia games because she's too nice, yet here she is agreeing to sacrifice 10% of the world's children". Big Grin

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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21-10-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: Objectivity
(21-10-2013 01:27 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I would say no. It might be catastrophic but it is better than the alternative. The way I see it this is a trap because once you agree to this the Aliens now have control over you. Especially if this deal is kept quiet the threat of publicly revealing your compliance with it would make it impossible to refuse any further demands. You have just turned humanity into a vassal state on the verge of a slave state. Refusing the deal calls their bluff if they can indeed destroy the earth then there was nothing stopping them from doing so once they got whatever it was they wanted in the first place. However if it was a bluff on their part you have just prevented the destruction of the future of humanity.

Well you can be pretty sure it's not a bluff so you're 99% likely at least to be signing a death warrant for the entire planet (including the 10% of children you're trying to protect ironically) but I can see your reasoning.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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21-10-2013, 01:36 PM
RE: Objectivity
(21-10-2013 01:33 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 01:27 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I would say no. It might be catastrophic but it is better than the alternative. The way I see it this is a trap because once you agree to this the Aliens now have control over you. Especially if this deal is kept quiet the threat of publicly revealing your compliance with it would make it impossible to refuse any further demands. You have just turned humanity into a vassal state on the verge of a slave state. Refusing the deal calls their bluff if they can indeed destroy the earth then there was nothing stopping them from doing so once they got whatever it was they wanted in the first place. However if it was a bluff on their part you have just prevented the destruction of the future of humanity.

Well you can be pretty sure it's not a bluff so you're 99% likely at least to be signing a death warrant for the entire planet (including the 10% of children you're trying to protect ironically) but I can see your reasoning.

I'm interested in how you would react to the deal. I know my way is probably catastrophic but it has that 1% chance of success where as compliance I think leads to a worse fate than death.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-10-2013, 01:40 PM
RE: Objectivity
There are a lot of assumptions in this. Your assuming your country is the only one being asked to make this sacrifice.

Other countries could agree or disagree...if they are also contacted.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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21-10-2013, 01:42 PM
RE: Objectivity
(21-10-2013 01:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 01:33 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Well you can be pretty sure it's not a bluff so you're 99% likely at least to be signing a death warrant for the entire planet (including the 10% of children you're trying to protect ironically) but I can see your reasoning.

I'm interested in how you would react to the deal. I know my way is probably catastrophic but it has that 1% chance of success where as compliance I think leads to a worse fate than death.

How do you know that? It doesn't say what these aliens want with the children. Maybe they want to read them stories? Maybe their lives would be improved?


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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21-10-2013, 01:45 PM
RE: Objectivity
(21-10-2013 01:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I'm interested in how you would react to the deal. I know my way is probably catastrophic but it has that 1% chance of success where as compliance I think leads to a worse fate than death.

I have no idea how I'd react.

I'd probably cry under my desk racking my brains for a solution until it was too late and we all got killed anyway.

Would you accept if you had a guarantee that they would take the 10% and leave forever?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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21-10-2013, 01:45 PM
RE: Objectivity
(21-10-2013 01:42 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 01:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I'm interested in how you would react to the deal. I know my way is probably catastrophic but it has that 1% chance of success where as compliance I think leads to a worse fate than death.

How do you know that? It doesn't say what these aliens want with the children. Maybe they want to read them stories? Maybe their lives would be improved?

Kidnapping on threat of death leads me to doubt their benevolent intentions.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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