Observational Faith vs Historical Faith
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12-11-2014, 07:18 AM
Observational Faith vs Historical Faith
Hello, My name is John, president and CEO of Answers in Evidence.

I am deeply disturbed by what I see in churches today, there is a war for our children's minds and hearts. People throughout the country are teaching that you should have faith based on a book. You see, they are using HISTORICAL faith. Faith that is based on what somebody wrote down thousands of years ago.

This is often misunderstood by the religious community with OBSERVATIONAL faith. Ken Ham and everybody else in the religious community don't really understand faith.

You see, observational faith is what you can see working every day. You have faith that your spouse won't cheat, you have faith that your car won't fall apart. You have faith in your children to do what you ask them to do. You can see this in action every day. Observational faith is amazing!!!

Historical faith is when you believe something because it is written down in a book. You were not there when it was written down, and therefore it must be dismissed as you did not OBSERVE it.

On the other hand you can look up and see the sky, this is direct observational faith of Zeus, people get married and start families everyday, you can OBSERVE this, and it is direct evidence of Hera. Millions of people every day observe the sea (Poseidon), and revenge (Nemesis)

You see, you cannot put your faith in a book written by man (Bible, Koran) that is HISTORICAL faith, when you can OBSERVE all of the gods at work everyday.


I know this isn't YouTube, but where can I disable comments and ratings so nobody can contradict what I say? Smile

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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12-11-2014, 07:45 AM
RE: Observational Faith vs Historical Faith
I've never understood Hamies argument...

How long does it need to have been to be historical faith? I would classify you believing your wife wont cheat on you, being based on her not having done so in the past(or having done so but truly being apologetic for it and giving you reason to think it wont happen again) these are based on your historical knowledge of her. Everything we observe quickly becomes history, so I don't see the logic in these distinctions.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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12-11-2014, 07:54 AM
RE: Observational Faith vs Historical Faith
(12-11-2014 07:45 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I've never understood Hamies argument...

It's just a way to get to the "Were you there?" nonsense. If you didn't see it happen then your opinion about what occurred is no more valid than his so his "faith" is as justified as your evidence.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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12-11-2014, 08:13 AM
RE: Observational Faith vs Historical Faith
That is because he doesn't have anything that remotely represents a valid argument. I find it sad that people like Ham have actually found a following. The worst part is that smart people actually have to take the time to respond and debunk his hypothesis, when it reality there is no way that he actually believes them himself based on his omission of most evidence, and misrepresentation of the rest. It is fraud at it's worst.

I really do wish there were a hell just for special people like him.

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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12-11-2014, 08:43 AM
RE: Observational Faith vs Historical Faith
(12-11-2014 07:18 AM)microterf Wrote:  Hello, My name is John, president and CEO of Answers in Evidence.

I am deeply disturbed by what I see in churches today, there is a war for our children's minds and hearts. People throughout the country are teaching that you should have faith based on a book. You see, they are using HISTORICAL faith. Faith that is based on what somebody wrote down thousands of years ago.

This is often misunderstood by the religious community with OBSERVATIONAL faith. Ken Ham and everybody else in the religious community don't really understand faith.

You see, observational faith is what you can see working every day. You have faith that your spouse won't cheat, you have faith that your car won't fall apart. You have faith in your children to do what you ask them to do. You can see this in action every day. Observational faith is amazing!!!

Historical faith is when you believe something because it is written down in a book. You were not there when it was written down, and therefore it must be dismissed as you did not OBSERVE it.

On the other hand you can look up and see the sky, this is direct observational faith of Zeus, people get married and start families everyday, you can OBSERVE this, and it is direct evidence of Hera. Millions of people every day observe the sea (Poseidon), and revenge (Nemesis)

You see, you cannot put your faith in a book written by man (Bible, Koran) that is HISTORICAL faith, when you can OBSERVE all of the gods at work everyday.


I know this isn't YouTube, but where can I disable comments and ratings so nobody can contradict what I say? Smile

The fact that you have to ask this is rather telling.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
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12-11-2014, 09:03 AM
RE: Observational Faith vs Historical Faith
I lol'd.

... this is my signature!
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12-11-2014, 10:11 AM
RE: Observational Faith vs Historical Faith
(12-11-2014 07:18 AM)microterf Wrote:  I know this isn't YouTube, but where can I disable comments and ratings so nobody can contradict what I say? Smile

Eh, people do that on youtube even with blocked comments. Your best option here is the same as your best option there: Just ignore everything anyone says and never look at what people say afterwards.

(12-11-2014 08:13 AM)microterf Wrote:  I really do wish there were a hell just for special people like him.

Sorry, the special hell is already reserved for child molesters and people who talk in the theater.
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12-11-2014, 10:15 AM
RE: Observational Faith vs Historical Faith
Since when did faith need any support?
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12-11-2014, 10:15 AM
RE: Observational Faith vs Historical Faith
Fail troll is fail.
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12-11-2014, 10:18 AM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2014 10:25 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: Observational Faith vs Historical Faith
(12-11-2014 10:15 AM)wazzel Wrote:  Since when did faith need any support?

Since it saw its latest poll numbers and started having a "we're not popular! people don't agree with us!" whiny, tantrumy, existential crisis.
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