Occupy the Interstate
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12-07-2016, 10:33 AM
RE: Occupy the Interstate
(12-07-2016 10:28 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 08:19 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The tactic of blocking roads as a form of protest does one thing --- it pisses off the people wanting to use the road..


Don't expect people who are pissed off at you to be sympathetic to your cause....

I'm not saying it's a good tactic or an effective tactic. I'm just saying, if I was part of a minority group with a long history of being denied basic civil rights within a certain society, I would feel no obligation whatsoever to that society to curtsy while I request my equality in a manner they find constructive and polite.

I agree with you.

I would look for the most effective means possible to affect change.

Pissing people off has a history of not working as it sets more people against you than with.

Getting attention does. Getting BAD attention does not.

.....

Flies, honey and vinegar -- ya know??

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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12-07-2016, 12:09 PM
RE: Occupy the Interstate
(12-07-2016 10:33 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 10:28 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I'm not saying it's a good tactic or an effective tactic. I'm just saying, if I was part of a minority group with a long history of being denied basic civil rights within a certain society, I would feel no obligation whatsoever to that society to curtsy while I request my equality in a manner they find constructive and polite.

I agree with you.

I would look for the most effective means possible to affect change.

Pissing people off has a history of not working as it sets more people against you than with.

Getting attention does. Getting BAD attention does not.

.....

Flies, honey and vinegar -- ya know??

I agree with that - I just think racism is difficult to negotiate with. It has no respect for decorum. But I'll agree that MOST of the people effected by road-blocking are not part of the problem. It is a shame that a great many people who might otherwise be supportive of this movement along ideological lines could be turned off by the tactics the protesters are employing.
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12-07-2016, 12:16 PM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2016 01:08 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Occupy the Interstate
(12-07-2016 04:28 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 12:41 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Source?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/...ings-2016/

515 shot and killed by police in 2016. (so far)
35 unarmed (7%).
18 white + unarmed (3%)
12 black + unarmed (2%)

These stats do not show a pandemic of cops killing unarmed blacks.

Black on black crime is by FAR the larger issue.

One thing that jumps out at me is that according to your own numbers above, 40% of all unarmed victims of police killings were black. Given that they only make up about 13% of the population here in America, what do you think that says about police/black relations?

Also -- I certainly wasn't arguing there was a "pandemic", so I'm not sure why you'd mention that replying to me. I do indeed think there's a problem when the discrepancies between the treatments doled out to different races are so painfully obvious, and yet so many here in America think there's no need for change.

Black-on-black violence is indeed a much larger issue, but I don't think that invalidates concerns over racist policing. Indeed, because the police are an arm of the government, and because they carry the power of life and death, I think it's vital to Americans of all colors that they carry out their jobs without regard to race.
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12-07-2016, 12:18 PM
RE: Occupy the Interstate
(12-07-2016 08:45 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 06:24 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Interesting stats.

It looks like the police are on target to beat last year's quota. Pun intended.

It also seems to make sense to be unarmed.

I wonder if that tells Murikans something?

Dodgy

BULL FUCKING SHIT, Whites also kill other whites more than any other. That "blacks kill blacks more" implies that most blacks are violent. ANOTHER BULLSHIT DODGE.

It STILL remains that blacks are hurt at a higher rate by our justice system and economic inequality.

If everybody, both whites and blacks, say race should NOT be an issue, I am sorry, it does not have to be all whites, but far too many whites are tone deaf to a very real problem, and if you think it is simply all in their head, you are full of shit.

Now, outside of the is issue, the same can be said with any issue. If there were no problems at all, nobody would be bitching, but the fact that people are, means a problem does exist. Humans don't get confrontational if they have resources and stability. If you think blacks are upset for no good reason, that is simply absurd, asinine and flat out ignorant.

It is the same with other species too. When an ecosystem is balanced it remains stable, but if one aspect of it gets lopsided, the system becomes more unstable.

Unsure

I'll put that down to a reply-button error.

Dodgy

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12-07-2016, 12:19 PM
RE: Occupy the Interstate
<edited, dbl-post>
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12-07-2016, 05:02 PM
RE: Occupy the Interstate
Quote:BULL FUCKING SHIT, Whites also kill other whites more than any other.

Facts are facts, doesn't make them bullshit.

Quote:That "blacks kill blacks more" implies that most blacks are violent.

What? No it doesn't. It implies exactly what it says, more blacks kill other blacks than cops kill blacks. If 1 cop kills a black and 2 blacks kill 2 blacks, more blacks have killed blacks than cops, doesn't mean they're all violent..

Quote:ANOTHER BULLSHIT DODGE.

It's not a dodge it's a fact. Not my fault you don't like it.

Quote:It STILL remains that blacks are hurt at a higher rate by our justice system and economic inequality.

Sure. But what's the cause of that? White people? Partially sure. But I'd say the larger cause is themselves.

Case in point, all these protests when a white cop kills a black dude. Large scale protests, dead police officers, looting whatever. All because a very small percentage of police killings which in turn is a small percentage of overall killings.

Where's the large scale protests, mass riots, lootings, snipers killing gang members, against gangs?? Against black on black crime??
You don't see it. Maybe the media doesn't cover it I dunno, I only get limited US news so maybe I'm missing all the massive protests against gangs going on right now.


But this is what I'm talking about. They like to play the blame card, pull out the slavery card despite the fact that slavery happened what? 150 years ago?
THEY and the media are making it a race thing. THEY are making it them v whites.
And it's off-putting for white people and even a lot of normal black people who aren't fucking retarded.

This isn't the 50's/60's. This is a different era and the issues are different.
The 50's/60's issues were easy, equal rights. They demanded getting attention.
But todays issue is racism, changing opinions. It's NOT white cops killing black men. The facts show that that is not a race related issue. It's OPINIONS. Opinions is the issue and you DON'T fix that by blocking the interstate and certainly not by killing cops and looting. And you DON'T fix that by picking a topic like white cops killing black men as your topic of protest. If there was mass protests against street gangs that is a thing white people could get behind and support. That could achieve something, a uniting movement rather than something that does nothing but increase race tension and worsen the real issue, opinions.


Quote:One thing that jumps out at me is that according to your own numbers above, 40% of all unarmed victims of police killings were black. Given that they only make up about 13% of the population here in America, what do you think that says about police/black relations?

Sure. But that 13% also commit 50% of the crime. So they're far more likely to in contact with Police. 40% of police deaths for a population that does 50% of the crime? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Quote:Also -- I certainly wasn't arguing there was a "pandemic", so I'm not sure why you'd mention that replying to me.

That wasn't aimed at you, just the topic in general.

Quote:Black-on-black violence is indeed a much larger issue, but I don't think that invalidates concerns over racist policing. Indeed, because the police are an arm of the government, and because they carry the power of life and death, I think it's vital to Americans of all colors that they carry out their jobs without regard to race.

Agreed. But the way they're going about solving this is wrong.

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12-07-2016, 05:42 PM
RE: Occupy the Interstate
They would appear to have now spread beyond the I-40.

Berlin, Liverpool, Amsterdam. Guys think they shouldn't have their breakfast to the accompaniment of groaning from a gunshot victim. On the business end of a weapon. Belonging to a killer who will enjoy impunity for his actions. What's up with that?




We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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12-07-2016, 09:21 PM
RE: Occupy the Interstate
Muffs-

It's about the treatment of the black communities by the police, of which killing is only one extreme example. Not only in black neighborhoods, but when black people are stopped just for driving in the "wrong" neighborhood. In Kansas City, on numerous occasions, I drove past such obvious profiling stops on the way to visit friends, even though I didn't live in that neighborhood or city either. Never have I been stopped by police without some cause (except one time where the guy stopped me because I dropped by a rest stop bathroom around midnight, and he was watching for "gay activity", later drawing a gun on me when I told him I had a weapon in the car... even though I was outside the car at the time) when my skin is visible. (I am ignoring stops on my motorcycle, when I'm completely covered, as that's a different subject.) Decades of this treatment have reached a point where black people have Had Enough™.

And it's not just about slavery but all the products of White Supremacy, from Jim Crow to laws which deliberately created ghettos by funneling government-backed loans and subsidies for infrastructure to white neighborhoods for decades, while denying them to black ones. Also there is the major problem of educational disparities, including college, for decades. We as a society have created rotted-out socioeconomic deserts, then tried to blame the predictable results of living in such environments on the victims of that environment. Pointing to "black on black crime" as a "bigger problem" is to divert from the White Supremacist policies that created that environment in the first place.

That's not to say that each person is not responsible for his own actions, though... quite the contrary. But by pointing to the legitimate complaints of the BLM protesters and excusing it by saying there's a larger issue (over which they have little control) is to suggest that those people are somehow involved in the black-on-black crime, themselves, or complicit therein. Black on black crime is the responsibility only of the individuals committing those crimes, not of the BLM protesters.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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12-07-2016, 09:40 PM
RE: Occupy the Interstate
Anecdotes don't mean shit. And looking at outcomes and injecting whatever cause you want is a fallacy.

There is legistlated affirmative action for specific races. Affirmative action is, by definition, discrimination; (another term for it is "positive discrimination.") And discrimination on the basis of race is racism by definition. Therefore the system IS racist, but it's not against blacks. This logic is impregnable.
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12-07-2016, 11:16 PM
RE: Occupy the Interstate
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"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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