Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
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13-09-2015, 06:31 PM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(12-09-2015 06:57 AM)epronovost Wrote:  @Heywood Jahblome

Hate speech is clearly defined in the law. In the case of gay marriage, you seem to be denying the victim and privilege blind. Gay marriage doesn't represent hate speech. It doesn't even meet one of the prerequisite. In this case, the problem is on the notion of hate speech. You can print pro-life fliers in an Office Depot, but it must not constitute hate speech.

Err...no, it is not. Please cite this law--any law--which defines hate speech and makes it a crime in the US. There are absolutely none that I know of. Other countries might have such laws, but there are none to my knowledge in the US.
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13-09-2015, 06:42 PM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2015 06:45 PM by BryanS.)
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(12-09-2015 11:56 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(11-09-2015 08:54 PM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  ... She says the flier “contained material that advocates the persecution of people who support abortion rights ...

Someone is going to have to show me what sentence or phrase in that flyer "advocates persecution" because I don't see it. It's rank propaganda, but persecution it ain't. I disagree with the Office Depot gang on this one, at least in claiming the flyer is a call for persecution.

Maybe somebody's eyesight is better than mine? Where's the beef here?

Exactly...I am not a defender of the religious by any means, but there is nothing advocating persecution or expressing hate of any kind. Here is the flier linked to in the article by the story posted by Heywood:

https://www.thomasmoresociety.org/wp-con...Prayer.pdf

Here is all the text of the "prayer"
Prayer for the Conversion of Planned Parenthood
Join in prayer and fasting Aug. 22-29
Lord for whom all things are possible, We are confronted once again today with the evil of the abortion industry and the corruption found in the world's largest abortion business, Planned Parenthood.
Lord, we pray for all who plan to be parents,
and we ask your mercy on those who teach others to reject parenthood. In light of your Word, Lord, we affirm today that children are a blessing from you, and that the origin of all parenthood is likewise in You, the God of life and love.
Therefore, Oh God, we stand against the evil that has been exposed in Planned Parenthood and in the entire abortion industry. We stand today for the triumph of truth over falsehood, of light over darkness, and of life over death.
Bring an end to the killing of children in the womb, and bring an end to the sale of their body parts. Bring conversion to all who do this, and enlightenment to all who advocate it.
Close the doors of the death camps in our midst, and open the doors of your mercy and healing! Close the grisly trade in baby body parts. And open the abundant gifts of your salvation and life!
Hasten the day when our land will no longer be stained with innocent blood, and when the bodies of all your children will be raised from the dead and set free forever.
We pray in the name of Jesus the Lord. Amen!
--Rev. Frank Pavone, National Director, Priests for Life
http://www.PriestsForLife.org

Here are the talking points/text:
Quick Facts on Planned Parenthood
 During fiscal year 2013/2014 Planned Parenthood received more than $1,400,000 per day in the form of government grants, contracts, and Medicaid reimbursements. *
 Taxpayer funding accounts for 41% of Planned Parenthood's overall revenue. *
 PP reported more than $127,000,000 in excess revenue, and more than $1,400,000,000 in net assets. *
 PP's cancer prevention services are down 17% over one year. (PP does NOT provide mammograms.) *
 Planned Parenthood committed 327, 653 abortions in 2013. *
 The United States is ranked 2nd in the world in number of abortions each year with over 1,000,000 (China is ranked 1st). **
 There are 9,170 Federally Qualified Health Centers who provide health services (but NOT abortions) to low-income populations, compared to about 700 Planned Parenthood clinics. **
 Seven undercover videos have been released showing top PP executives discussing the harvesting of aborted babies' organs.
View them here: http://www.centerformedicalprogress.org

We can find much to disagree with in this flier, but refusing to provide service to someone asking to copy this is blatant discrimination. The only way Office Depot can claim this advocates persecution would be to say opposing abortion is inherently equivalent to advocating persecution. I think Office Depot might find themselves losing in court on this one.
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13-09-2015, 08:44 PM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
"We reserve the right to refuse service."
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13-09-2015, 09:03 PM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(13-09-2015 08:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  "We reserve the right to refuse service."

The law is pretty clear that a business that opens their services to the public is not allowed to discriminate when reserving that right to refuse service. It's also generally bad business to discriminate.
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13-09-2015, 10:01 PM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(13-09-2015 09:03 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(13-09-2015 08:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  "We reserve the right to refuse service."

The law is pretty clear that a business that opens their services to the public is not allowed to discriminate when reserving that right to refuse service. It's also generally bad business to discriminate.

Who said anything about discrimination? I certainly didn't.
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16-09-2015, 12:16 AM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(13-09-2015 08:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  "We reserve the right to refuse service."

It should be that way....but it isn't.
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16-09-2015, 12:18 AM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(13-09-2015 06:31 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Err...no, it is not. Please cite this law--any law--which defines hate speech and makes it a crime in the US. There are absolutely none that I know of. Other countries might have such laws, but there are none to my knowledge in the US.
-bolded by me

Thank God.
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16-09-2015, 04:54 AM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(13-09-2015 06:31 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(12-09-2015 06:57 AM)epronovost Wrote:  @Heywood Jahblome

Hate speech is clearly defined in the law. In the case of gay marriage, you seem to be denying the victim and privilege blind. Gay marriage doesn't represent hate speech. It doesn't even meet one of the prerequisite. In this case, the problem is on the notion of hate speech. You can print pro-life fliers in an Office Depot, but it must not constitute hate speech.

Err...no, it is not. Please cite this law--any law--which defines hate speech and makes it a crime in the US. There are absolutely none that I know of. Other countries might have such laws, but there are none to my knowledge in the US.

Why don't you think there are laws for it? Part of the 1964 Civil Rights Act includes a clause about not tolerating hate speech legally. Hate Speech is loosely defined, but it's generally defined as speech that creates hostile working environments or invites violence/prejudice.

This flyer may be seen as promoting prejudice and be seen as hate speech. It I suppose could go to a court level to determine if it qualified or not.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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16-09-2015, 09:20 PM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(16-09-2015 04:54 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(13-09-2015 06:31 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Err...no, it is not. Please cite this law--any law--which defines hate speech and makes it a crime in the US. There are absolutely none that I know of. Other countries might have such laws, but there are none to my knowledge in the US.

Why don't you think there are laws for it? Part of the 1964 Civil Rights Act includes a clause about not tolerating hate speech legally. Hate Speech is loosely defined, but it's generally defined as speech that creates hostile working environments or invites violence/prejudice.

This flyer may be seen as promoting prejudice and be seen as hate speech. It I suppose could go to a court level to determine if it qualified or not.

The Civil Rights Act has not made speech a crime. It did prohibit discrimination in:
-access to public accommodations
-government treatment of citizens and equal protection of the law
-employment
-interstate commerce (except private groups not doing business with the public)
-schooling
-voting rights

You are free to express any hateful message you want (like saying for instance black people are intellectually inferior) but must stop short of calling for, advocating, or inciting explicit acts of violence (like saying for instance that we should hang a black person in order to 'keep them in their place'). The later isn't only hate speech, but incitement to violence, which is a crime regardless of the motivation.

I challenge you to cite any example of someone in the US charged with hate speech. You will find no such examples. Heck, the Supreme Court even affirmed the right of Neo Nazis to spew hate in the famous Skokie trial (defended, as they were, by the ACLU).

The flyer expressed no call to violence, and threatened nobody, and as such, it is protected speech. Even if it was "hate speech" as you understand the term, that does not make it illegal speech.

Employment law is a different matter--the hostile work environment you refer to only applies to a work-place environment where it is not legal to discriminate in employment matters.
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16-09-2015, 09:57 PM
RE: Office Depot refuses to print a religious flyer against abortion
(16-09-2015 12:16 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(13-09-2015 08:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  "We reserve the right to refuse service."
It should be that way....but it isn't.


Thank his noodlely fucking appendages it's not that way, nor should it be.

If you offer a service to the public, you have to take all comers. Otherwise you get a legal cover for discrimination, and we're right back to the Jim Crow laws. Christians refusing service to non-Christians, southern whites refusing services to blacks and Latinos, et cetera. It would be a royal cluster-fuck and a massive step backwards.

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