Official Cannabis Thread
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05-07-2012, 04:54 AM
RE: Official Cannabis Thread
(05-07-2012 04:45 AM)Filox Wrote:  And what about 5000 years of history and known usage of the plant religion? Does that count? In 5000 years of usage not a single death caused by
the plant religion. Does that count, or do we need yesterdays news? Sometimes mother history is the best example, better than something new and still not tested long enough.

Just my 2 cents, I am overly biased, but what the hell...

Big Grin
5000 years ago people didn't know how to measure such things. The wisdom might *point* to something, but it's in no way admissible as evidence.
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05-07-2012, 05:26 AM (This post was last modified: 05-07-2012 05:32 AM by Filox.)
RE: Official Cannabis Thread
Interesting...

I googled "weed is bad" and this is the second link I found, it is from Yahoo answers.

Quote: It’s main ingredient is THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol), a
mind-altering chemical. Marijuana produced today has a level of THC that
is up to 25 times higher than the type sold in the 1960s. And depending
on how it is “cut”, it can contain hundreds of other harmful chemicals,
many of which are carcinogenic (cancer-causing).

Biologically, marijuana affects the brain, heart, lungs, sexual organs,
and depresses the immune system. The effects on the brain include
distortion of the senses, confused judgment, and decreased motor skills.
Operating machinery and motor vehicles becomes dangerous. Effects on
the heart include rapid heart rate and high blood pressure. Respiratory
problems include pharyngitis, laryngitis, and bronchitis. Marijuana has
been associated with lung, head, and neck cancers. It reduces the
T-cells in the immune system that are needed to fight off infections. In
pre-teens, marijuana use can retard physical growth and slow down
development. High dose marijuana use can cause decreased fertility,
breast enlargement in males, and breast milk production.



Usually marijuana in inhaled (smoking a “joint”) for its psychological
effects. Within the first few minutes, it produces a sense of heightened
well being and relaxation. Now that sounds good. But with continued
use, the mental effects include short-term memory loss, shortened
attention span, impaired learning, social withdrawal, and decreased
motivation. Anxiety attacks, panic reactions, delirium, and
hallucinations can occur.
You see, these kind of articles make smart people like earmuffs talk rubbish. Now, to debunk some of the things that are DEAD WRONG here, not wrong, but completely opposite of the truth.

Marijuana "produced" today is not 25 times stronger than it was in 1960. It may be stronger if you pay close attention to the process and the strains you use, but not nearly 25 times stronger. Also, who is to say that "stronger" weed is also more harmful? Back to that later.

MARIJUANA IS NOT "CUT"!!! When you say "cut", in the drug world, it means that you mix it with something else, that is how drug dealers make 2 kilos of heroin from one kilo of pure heroin. Cocaine, amphetamines and all those "powder" drugs are "cut" for profit. Marijuana is a PLANT, it is not "cut" with anything. It physically CAN NOT be. There are no hundreds of other harmful chemicals, there is exactly 421 (almost 420, imagine that...) cannabinoids that are linked to human endocannabinoid system and they can interact. That process makes our body do all sorts of things, and it is a natural process, beneficial to any human being. What it does is it enhances the work of various systems all over our body and it helps maintain balance of those systems. Endocannabinoid system in human body is responsible for "cleaning" free radicals, and introducing more cannabinoids makes that system stronger. Antioxidants and free radical removal is the basis of cancer prevention.

According to the research made by British a few years ago (can't give you link, filter blocked) driving while stoned does not make you more dangerous. It even helps you concentrate only on your driving, so the decreased motor skills are balanced by being more concentrated on driving. Alcohol is incredibly more dangerous for driving. I personally can confirm both of these theories, since I drove drunk and stoned, on multiple occasions. Not recommended, but still...


Effects on heart include slower heart beat and lower blood pressure. It relaxes you, how can anyone get this so wrong?

Marijuana has been connected with all sorts of cancers, but it helps our immune system to fight the cancerous cells, it does not cause it. The British have tested the effect of tobacco, marijuana and both on the lung cancer. The results have shown that tobacco increases the risk, marijuana does not and the combination of marijuana&tobacco does not increase the risk. This brought up the next question, how come if you smoke marijuana AND tobacco, you still do not get higher risk of lung cancer? The answer is in the fact that marijuana help us fight the cancer cells, so it neutralises the dangerous effect of tobacco. This brings us to the conclusion that marijuana is a cure for cancer, not the cause of it.

It does not lower your immune system, it makes you more resilient to all sorts of illnesses. Everyone I know that smokes is never sick, no flue, no temperature, nothing. I haven't been sick since I was in high school. But this is not evidence, this is my personal observation. Evidences can be found in the anti-inflammatory effects and the usage of TCH oil for curing burns and for curing AIDS, as it help our immune system to stay stronger for a longer time than it would if you do not use weed. AIDS kills your immune system and you die from simple cold, if you do not know how AIDS kills people. AIDS by itself does not kill you.

I can give you studies for every single one of these claims, but I really do not have time or will to search for them. You can, however, find all this in different link through this thread.

Endocannabinoid system is explained in detail in a documentary "What if Cannabis can cure cancer".

Here is the shortest possible explanation...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21410463

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05-07-2012, 05:29 AM
RE: Official Cannabis Thread
morondog, in the last 5000 years different religions have killed a few full populations of this planet. How in the hell could you take religion to debunk my FACT, not theory? Funny, but way off...

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05-07-2012, 05:47 AM
RE: Official Cannabis Thread
(05-07-2012 05:29 AM)Filox Wrote:  morondog, in the last 5000 years different religions have killed a few full populations of this planet. How in the hell could you take religion to debunk my FACT, not theory? Funny, but way off...
What I gave you was an example of something for which the "5000 years of evidence" claim can be put forward, but for which only now do we have the tools to understand that those 5000 years of evidence amount to nothing.
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05-07-2012, 05:54 AM
RE: Official Cannabis Thread
Quote: Yes earmuffs. I suppose it was an answer. A bad answer at that. One you
got called on. But don't worry, your ego will heal over time.
It wasn't a bad answer at all. You asked how I knew and so I responded. It is not my fault you failed to see beyond the questions I provided to see what I was truly saying in that I know the same way I know fatty foods will make fat, oh sorry, "refined carbohydrates" (seriously, why do people in this thread have to be so fucking nit picky, you people know what I mean), through education and research.
It was a rather valid answer that you only thought you called me out on because you were incapable of understanding the answer provided.

Quote:It's funny you mention cancer, anxiety, depression, etc. You do realize these are things that doctors are treating with cannabis, right? And I mean actual doctors. People who not only rely on research, but actually DO research.
Sure. But it still doesn't change the facts that the side effects are still there.
Plus yous till have institutes like the FDA saying: "marijuana has a high potential for abuse, has no currently accepted
medical use in treatment in the United States, and has a lack of
accepted safety for use under medical supervision. The National
Institute on Drug Abuse NIDA
state that "Marijuana itself is an unlikely medication candidate for
several reasons: (1) it is an unpurified plant containing numerous
chemicals with unknown health effects; (2) it is typically consumed by
smoking further contributing to potential adverse effects; and (3) its
cognitive impairing effects may limit its utility"

Or perhaps "The Institute of Medicine, run by the United States National Academy of Sciences,
conducted a comprehensive study in 1999 to assess the potential health
benefits of cannabis and its constituent cannabinoids. The study
concluded that smoking cannabis is not recommended for the treatment of
any disease condition. Blah blah blah, economical stuff about it not being a patentable plant. The report also concluded that for certain patients, such as the
terminally ill or those with debilitating symptoms, the long-term risks
are not of great concern". Note how they said, "long term risks" at the end there.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis#cite_note-116][/url]
Quote: Really dude. The propaganda is coming from the anti-MJ fanatics.
It's not propaganda, it's fact.

Quote: But if you'd actually read my 18 year old link
Why would I waste my time reading a report 8years old on something that new research is being turned out all the time. Not to mention you said it yourself it's a biased website (which likely explains why it has an 18year old report on it).
If I was to throw up some Fox news political article it would be swept under the rug and dismissed as bad information. This is no different, it's old and it's coming from a biased source.

Quote: Then you turn around and start talking nonsense like the gateway drug
argument, which is about as valid as a Christian claiming the bible is
the word of god because the bible says it's the word of god. I mean shit
dude, the gateway drug was one of the biggest, and most thoroughly
debunked pieces of propaganda put out by the government.
It may be "hotly debated" but it is hardly 'debunked' the research is there to prove it is a gateway drug.

Quote: Pregnancy? Driving while impaired? If you think for a second anyone here
has implied doing weed while also being pregnant or driving is ok then
you need to give your head a shake.
Well to be nitpicky when I originally posted I said very broadly "drugs are bad". Drugs and pregnancy, and drugs and driving are parts of it and hence are hardly off the table for me to bring up.

Quote: Here's what it comes down to. It doesn't matter if you drink or smoke.
What matters is that you have the right to. It's up to you whether you
put those intoxicants in your body. Cannabis is clearly (yep, I said
clearly. Do as much unbiased research as you like. It ALL points towards
both of those being exponentially worse than pot) not as bad, and yet
prohibition continues. I don't think you should smoke weed. I do think
you should be able to make that choice for yourself.
I suppose this is the part where I bring up second hand smoke and the government doesn't let you murder people.

Quote: One last thing earmuffs. If you're gonna start calling down information
people provide, you really should start providing better info to back
yourself up. I got no problem with you pointing something out and
saying, hey man, I got something here that seems to contradict that.
Have a look see. I'll look, conversation will ensue, and we'll both walk
away better informed. But the whole, "I know it's bad for me because I
know other stuff is bad for me" thing is, frankly, beneath you.
Ok.

*does quick google*

http://mentorfoundation.org/drugs.php?na...&id=7&pg=2
http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/drug-fact...QgodY2s7Wg
http://www.acde.org/common/Marijana.htm
http://www.marijuana-addiction.net/marij...ffects.htm
http://www.raysahelian.com/marijuana.html
http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/dr.../marijuana
http://www.talktofrank.com/drug/cannabis/

I don't know what they say but no doubt it's what I've been saying.

Also while I'm providing links.
Quote: A cigarette a day won't do dick to you.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/articl...plant.html

Quote: OK, Earmuffs, I consider to be a great guy, funny and intelligent
Thank you, I consider myself to be those things too.

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05-07-2012, 08:33 AM
RE: Official Cannabis Thread
Well that serves me right for trying to make things easy. The page I linked was a convenient compilation of myths that is still valid today. I thought people looking for some quick info would find it an easy starting point. But hey, what was I thinking, trying to be helpful.

The website I linked also has five PAGES of links from 2012 alone. Many are on new studies, many on other related news. I didn't, t think you'd want to pick through those. And I was right....you said yourself you didn't even read the stuff you linked yourself!

As for outdated research..........time does not invalidate research, contradictory research invalidates it. Plus, you say you won't bother reading from a biased site, then you provide a bunch of links to organizations that have very deep interests in big pharma?? Seriously?

I get the impression that this is an "I'm right, and there ain't no changing that" kind of discussion. If you're not willing to "waste your time" reading info that,s on the topic, why are you discussing it at all? You're even providing links to support your argument that you haven't even read!

Oh well. It's a shame really.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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05-07-2012, 10:06 PM (This post was last modified: 05-07-2012 10:18 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Official Cannabis Thread
(05-07-2012 08:33 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Well that serves me right for trying to make things easy. The page I linked was a convenient compilation of myths that is still valid today. I thought people looking for some quick info would find it an easy starting point. But hey, what was I thinking, trying to be helpful.

No, that was quite informative snake charmer, Thumbsup ... I just feel like I wanna hold muffinears down and blow a billy in his face. Fucker presumes to tell me how to dick with my neuronal pathways? I've been doing this for decades, son. ... Not particularly interested in your input.

#sigh
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05-07-2012, 11:09 PM
RE: Official Cannabis Thread
And this is exactly the reason why I do not post in this thread usually.

Quote: Blah blah blah, economical stuff about it not being a patentable plant.

This is the main and the only reason for all other anti-MJ "facts". They (the pharmaceutical companies) can not patent the plant, so that is why it is illegal. You are mentioning the USA National Academy of Science, but what about Canada, Netherlands and Great Britain? They are leading explorers for the last 10 years in the field of researching medicinal cannabis. You didn't bother to search for that, ha? But you did find some "evidence" made by the government that put a ban on cannabis 80 years ago and then they pushed that ban on all the countries in the world...

That is really unbiased and intellectual, good job. If you want to learn something, watch Hemp Revolution, there you can see all the evidence about how and why did USA government ban weed. If you do not want to bother, feel free to talk rubbish and use retarded and 50 year old "research" that is just government propaganda to keep MJ illegal.

As I was keeping away from this thread in the past, so will I do it in the future, this is just too annoying for me.

Thanx for all the fish.

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05-07-2012, 11:21 PM
RE: Official Cannabis Thread
(05-07-2012 10:06 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 08:33 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Well that serves me right for trying to make things easy. The page I linked was a convenient compilation of myths that is still valid today. I thought people looking for some quick info would find it an easy starting point. But hey, what was I thinking, trying to be helpful.

No, that was quite informative snake charmer, Thumbsup ... I just feel like I wanna hold muffinears down and blow a billy in his face. Fucker presumes to tell me how to dick with my neuronal pathways? I've been doing this for decades, son. ... Not particularly interested in your input.
Yeh, right on! Who invited him anyway??? Dodgy

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06-07-2012, 05:22 AM
RE: Official Cannabis Thread
Quote from Wikipedia, interesting really...

Quote: According to an approved statement from the US Department of Justice in 1988, "Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal effects. But cannabis is not such a substance. There is no record in the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented cannabis-induced fatality. In practical terms, cannabis cannot induce a lethal response as a result of drug-related toxicity."

From January 1997 to June 2005, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) reported zero deaths caused by the primary use of cannabis. In contrast, common FDA-approved drugs which are often prescribed in lieu of cannabis (such as anti-emetics and anti-psychotics), were the primary cause of 10,008 deaths.[54] The cannabinoid THC has an extremely low toxicity and the amount that can enter the body through the consumption of cannabis plants poses no threat of death.

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