Oh, man, Onan
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11-03-2015, 07:45 AM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(10-03-2015 06:04 PM)claywise Wrote:  Why don't these facts create cognitive dissonance in believers who insist that masturbation is a "sin"? Discounting obsessive whacking off, I presume most people see it logically as a victimless "crime" that harms no one.

It's several things.

First you take something completely normal to the point of being ubiquitous, then you demonize it. You create a problem where there was none and you tell people you have "the cure" for it.

Second, you take Bible verses that talk about God's foolishness being wiser then man's wisdom (he's right, we're wrong), about Satan being The Deceiver (statistics smastistics), and how we're in the world but not of the world (it doesn't matter what they do). Also, throw in some cosmic, existential threats (hell) for good measure.

The point is to get people stuck in a rut where they refuse to crawl out of it themselves, and actively fight against being pulled out.
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11-03-2015, 10:05 AM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(11-03-2015 07:10 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Good point. I forgot about that one. It would seem though that 5% for those guys is a bit high.

That said, I find it rather hard to believe that an upstanding 40% of married Christian men never, ever sand that ol' rugged cross.....

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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11-03-2015, 10:45 AM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
Needing "forgiveness of the sin of masturbation" is a bit like needing fabric softener.....

Before they made it up, you didn't need it, want it, or even realize it existed. You got along just fine.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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11-03-2015, 01:04 PM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(11-03-2015 07:45 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(10-03-2015 06:04 PM)claywise Wrote:  Why don't these facts create cognitive dissonance in believers who insist that masturbation is a "sin"? Discounting obsessive whacking off, I presume most people see it logically as a victimless "crime" that harms no one.

It's several things.

First you take something completely normal to the point of being ubiquitous, then you demonize it. You create a problem where there was none and you tell people you have "the cure" for it.

Second, you take Bible verses that talk about God's foolishness being wiser then man's wisdom (he's right, we're wrong), about Satan being The Deceiver (statistics smastistics), and how we're in the world but not of the world (it doesn't matter what they do). Also, throw in some cosmic, existential threats (hell) for good measure.

The point is to get people stuck in a rut where they refuse to crawl out of it themselves, and actively fight against being pulled out.

If that's the kind of stuff you heard about masturbation, you were in one heckuva wacky church, Robby.

Masturbation isn't a mortal sin. Masturbation is frequently and obviously accompanied by fantasy and lust. Abstinence does make the heart grow fonder. Married and singles alike in my church are encouraged to avoid masturbation, but it's not something we even talk about frequently. Church members actually request that we preach on sexuality more often than we do for the reasons you've cited.

God made sex. God gave Adam and Eve to one another but never said, "Oh, no, I married you together but don't do THAT."

Sex is meant to be enjoyed without guilt. What increases guilt is lack of trust. Trust and sexuality are in a virtuous cycle (pun not intended) in a trusting marriage of fidelity. (And what a shame to need to write those expressions of marriage, since many marriages today are in no way trustworthy.)

In other words and to sum, I'm not buying all you're selling about religion, sex and guilt, because absolutely, religion bears some burden here, but indulgence outside marriage can lead to guilt (for those of us who still have a tender conscience without religion).

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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11-03-2015, 01:14 PM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(11-03-2015 01:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Sex is meant to be enjoyed without guilt. What increases guilt is lack of trust. Trust and sexuality are in a virtuous cycle (pun not intended) in a trusting marriage of fidelity. (And what a shame to need to write those expressions of marriage, since many marriages today are in no way trustworthy.)

The problem is that masturbation is linked to sex, and is heavily frowned upon because it's not sex with one's spouse.


(11-03-2015 01:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  In other words and to sum, I'm not buying all you're selling about religion, sex and guilt, because absolutely, religion bears some burden here, but indulgence outside marriage can lead to guilt (for those of us who still have a tender conscience without religion).

I don't see why it should lead to any guilt, so long as all parties are consenting and you're not violating any vows you made. The Abrahamic religions, however, disagree.

Masturbating is pretty much ubiquitous among humans, yet everything I've ever heard about it from a Christian standpoint has been guilt and/or condemnation.
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12-03-2015, 03:12 AM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
You guys are seeing this all wrong...the sin is forgetting to invite the priest before you masturbate. LoL.

http://m.bbc.com/news/magazine-21654663

http://bishop-accountability.org/priestd...ame-A.html

I say if the believer don't see the wrongdoings of their delusional religions then it's just right for them. Meanwhile I can sit and watch religion for what it truly is "a big joke".
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12-03-2015, 05:49 AM
RE: Oh, man, Onan

If that's the kind of stuff you heard about masturbation, you were in one heckuva wacky church, Robby.

Masturbation isn't a mortal sin. Masturbation is frequently and obviously accompanied by fantasy and lust. Abstinence does make the heart grow fonder. Married and singles alike in my church are encouraged to avoid masturbation, but it's not something we even talk about frequently. Church members actually request that we preach on sexuality more often than we do for the reasons you've cited.

God made sex. God gave Adam and Eve to one another but never said, "Oh, no, I married you together but don't do THAT."

Sex is meant to be enjoyed without guilt. What increases guilt is lack of trust. Trust and sexuality are in a virtuous cycle (pun not intended) in a trusting marriage of fidelity. (And what a shame to need to write those expressions of marriage, since many marriages today are in no way trustworthy.)

In other words and to sum, I'm not buying all you're selling about religion, sex and guilt, because absolutely, religion bears some burden here, but indulgence outside marriage can lead to guilt (for those of us who still have a tender conscience without religion).
[/quote]

So what I hear you saying - is it's OK to wank off -- but only as long as you don't really enjoy it......

That about the nut of it???

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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12-03-2015, 07:20 AM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
before the bible it was ok to masturbate, after the bible was put together its a deadly sin

and the bible didn't exist for more than a 100,000 years after human kind came into existence, so why should anyone care about its stupid anti-fapping say so rules ?
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12-03-2015, 07:35 AM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(12-03-2015 05:49 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(11-03-2015 01:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  

If that's the kind of stuff you heard about masturbation, you were in one heckuva wacky church, Robby.

Masturbation isn't a mortal sin. Masturbation is frequently and obviously accompanied by fantasy and lust. Abstinence does make the heart grow fonder. Married and singles alike in my church are encouraged to avoid masturbation, but it's not something we even talk about frequently. Church members actually request that we preach on sexuality more often than we do for the reasons you've cited.

God made sex. God gave Adam and Eve to one another but never said, "Oh, no, I married you together but don't do THAT."

Sex is meant to be enjoyed without guilt. What increases guilt is lack of trust. Trust and sexuality are in a virtuous cycle (pun not intended) in a trusting marriage of fidelity. (And what a shame to need to write those expressions of marriage, since many marriages today are in no way trustworthy.)

In other words and to sum, I'm not buying all you're selling about religion, sex and guilt, because absolutely, religion bears some burden here, but indulgence outside marriage can lead to guilt (for those of us who still have a tender conscience without religion).


So what I hear you saying - is it's OK to wank off -- but only as long as you don't really enjoy it......

That about the nut of it???

The quote tag mis-fired in your post OB, I was thinking- you go to a church? I would love to hear some of those war stories. Laugh out load

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-03-2015, 10:54 AM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(11-03-2015 01:14 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(11-03-2015 01:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Sex is meant to be enjoyed without guilt. What increases guilt is lack of trust. Trust and sexuality are in a virtuous cycle (pun not intended) in a trusting marriage of fidelity. (And what a shame to need to write those expressions of marriage, since many marriages today are in no way trustworthy.)

The problem is that masturbation is linked to sex, and is heavily frowned upon because it's not sex with one's spouse.


(11-03-2015 01:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  In other words and to sum, I'm not buying all you're selling about religion, sex and guilt, because absolutely, religion bears some burden here, but indulgence outside marriage can lead to guilt (for those of us who still have a tender conscience without religion).

I don't see why it should lead to any guilt, so long as all parties are consenting and you're not violating any vows you made. The Abrahamic religions, however, disagree.

Masturbating is pretty much ubiquitous among humans, yet everything I've ever heard about it from a Christian standpoint has been guilt and/or condemnation.

Perhaps I can enlighten you, for again, it sounds like the church you were in was that, guilt and condemnation.

So let me ask you, is it meant to cause guilt and condemnation to tell someone about a healthy lifestyle or unhealthy lifestyle? Am I trying to cause my kids guilt and condemnation if I encourage them not to shoot heroin? (Yes, Robby, of course I am if I threaten them with Hell and etc. and I don't do that garbage in this context.)

Google a bit about masturbation and sexual expression in marriage. You may have some data I haven't yet seen, and I'm open-minded here, but the few studies I remember seeing demonstrated that men or women who masturbate have marital sex less frequently with their spouses. Same with porn and porn with masturbation.

Now, before you argue with me--remember any personal experience you may have had. If I masturbate five minutes before my wife asks me for sex--and the Bible says I am to pleasure her with sex if she requests it--and I love obeying God's commands! -- you do the refractory math. Drinking Beverage

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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