Oh, man, Onan
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24-03-2015, 02:07 PM (This post was last modified: 25-03-2015 06:45 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(20-03-2015 02:12 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(19-03-2015 11:12 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  It's a mental disobedience yes... the problem is here how physically she still may of been as easily impregnated by his actions. It reflects people who don't understand all that much about biology, not the processes of the creator of life.

And you highlight the other asinine elements of this little story. How is being slain for wickedness of his motives considered having free will? He has an attitude god doesn't like, so god slays him. What even is free will in the choices of god then, just the ability to have thoughts?

I beg your pardon, again, but repeating again, I think everyone who isn't an atheist or skeptic recognizes that the Bible shows the honest sins and fallacies of its characters/people. I never thought God doesn't understand conception nor have I ever heard any rabbi or pastor or muslim cleric teach anything but disobedience as the point of Onan's tale.

As for free will coexisting with a sovereign God, what is the gap in your understanding? Most EVERY single action you ever undertake via your free will has consequences attached. You use your free will to shoot heroin, consequences. You decide to play chicken with trains, consequences, be they getting flattened, getting arrested, or getting a thrill rush and getting scared. You disobey God, there are consequences.

As a side note, it kind of reminds me of deconversion discussions here at TTA. "Oh, help me, TTA members, I'm in a church and I'm hurting." Sure you are, because you're thinking of leaving God and/or religion for atheism, which comes with consequences. "But I feel so relieved now that I've walked away from all that," you protest. Sure, and Hare Krishnas feel so much better and at "peace" after they join a cult, addicts feel so relieved when they give in yet again to porn or heroin or drink, etc. You are currently experiencing consequences for disobeying God, I say this to you with respect, and care, as for a friend, but you are sitting here again asking me about someone who disobeyed God and thus died millennia ago. Why?

Didn't you say you were catholic?(in the past of your upbringing I'm meaning here) Or if not, you can't honestly say you're completely unaware they have anti contraception ideas based on their concept of deeming sex to be solely for the purpose of reproduction? Which is based on the story of Onan. Is that somehow a completely foreign concept to you?

Is there not a difference to you of, Person does something and suffers consequences and a person does something and GOD directly encats the consequences?

Or do you think every persons death is also being done to us by God as Onan and his brothers death were written out. Because if you believe the text is literal, there is a distinction there made that GOD made an action in this case. It's not mere free will consequences if God is directly intervening, but if that isn't the case, why is the wording there? That would be deciding the outcomes and choosing when to intervene, which contrasts at least what many say when they'll proclaim god doesn't intervene to contrast horrible diseases because of free will.

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24-03-2015, 02:09 PM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(24-03-2015 01:47 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I hear what you are saying but doubt people come to TTA to scream at Christians because of masturbation frustration. Be honest, instead. Why not say because of existential frustration at not hearing from God? Because that we can address together.

People don't come to TTA to "scream" at Christians. They come to TTA to be with like-minded people, to learn, to teach, and to have fun. Then the Christians come too and mostly to troll. Not all, but most. That's when the gloves come off, but it's not "screaming". Just setting the record straight and not putting up with troll crap.

I find it telling when a theist comes to an atheist site to lecture and then accuses atheists of "screaming" at them. Something tells me, if an atheist went to a Christian site to lecture, you'd also call that screaming at Christians.

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24-03-2015, 03:27 PM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(24-03-2015 02:07 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(20-03-2015 02:12 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I beg your pardon, again, but repeating again, I think everyone who isn't an atheist or skeptic recognizes that the Bible shows the honest sins and fallacies of its characters/people. I never thought God doesn't understand conception nor have I ever heard any rabbi or pastor or muslim cleric teach anything but disobedience as the point of Onan's tale.

As for free will coexisting with a sovereign God, what is the gap in your understanding? Most EVERY single action you ever undertake via your free will has consequences attached. You use your free will to shoot heroin, consequences. You decide to play chicken with trains, consequences, be they getting flattened, getting arrested, or getting a thrill rush and getting scared. You disobey God, there are consequences.

As a side note, it kind of reminds me of deconversion discussions here at TTA. "Oh, help me, TTA members, I'm in a church and I'm hurting." Sure you are, because you're thinking of leaving God and/or religion for atheism, which comes with consequences. "But I feel so relieved now that I've walked away from all that," you protest. Sure, and Hare Krishnas feel so much better and at "peace" after they join a cult, addicts feel so relieved when they give in yet again to porn or heroin or drink, etc. You are currently experiencing consequences for disobeying God, I say this to you with respect, and care, as for a friend, but you are sitting here again asking me about someone who disobeyed God and thus died millennia ago. Why?

Didn't you say you were catholic? Or if not, you can't honestly say you're completely unaware they have anti contraception ideas based on their concept of deeming sex to be solely for the purpose of reproduction? Which is based on the story of Onan. Is that somehow a completely foreign concept to you?

Is there not a difference to you of, Person does something and suffers consequences and a person does something and GOD directly encats the consequences?

Or do you think every persons death is also being done to us by God as Onan and his brothers death were written out. Because if you believe the text is literal, there is a distinction there made that GOD made an action in this case. It's not mere free will consequences if God is directly intervening, but if that isn't the case, why is the wording there? That would be deciding the outcomes and choosing when to intervene, which contrasts at least what many say when they'll proclaim god doesn't intervene to contrast horrible diseases because of free will.

No, no, no. He's not a Catholic or a Protestant. He's a True Christian™. Just ask him. Yes
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24-03-2015, 03:57 PM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(24-03-2015 01:47 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Be honest, instead. Why not say because of existential frustration at not hearing from God? Because that we can address together.
Why do you assume we're frustrated at not hearing from your god? That's very belittling and insulting. The worst part is that you don't even understand that.
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24-03-2015, 04:56 PM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(12-03-2015 10:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Now, before you argue with me--remember any personal experience you may have had. If I masturbate five minutes before my wife asks me for sex--and the Bible says I am to pleasure her with sex if she requests it--and I love obeying God's commands! -- you do the refractory math. Drinking Beverage

So I think what you're saying is that cracking a nut prior to sex obeys God's command by increasing the pleasure of your partner because you can last like 30 minutes instead of 30 seconds. Yes?

#sigh
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27-03-2015, 01:21 PM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(24-03-2015 02:07 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(20-03-2015 02:12 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I beg your pardon, again, but repeating again, I think everyone who isn't an atheist or skeptic recognizes that the Bible shows the honest sins and fallacies of its characters/people. I never thought God doesn't understand conception nor have I ever heard any rabbi or pastor or muslim cleric teach anything but disobedience as the point of Onan's tale.

As for free will coexisting with a sovereign God, what is the gap in your understanding? Most EVERY single action you ever undertake via your free will has consequences attached. You use your free will to shoot heroin, consequences. You decide to play chicken with trains, consequences, be they getting flattened, getting arrested, or getting a thrill rush and getting scared. You disobey God, there are consequences.

As a side note, it kind of reminds me of deconversion discussions here at TTA. "Oh, help me, TTA members, I'm in a church and I'm hurting." Sure you are, because you're thinking of leaving God and/or religion for atheism, which comes with consequences. "But I feel so relieved now that I've walked away from all that," you protest. Sure, and Hare Krishnas feel so much better and at "peace" after they join a cult, addicts feel so relieved when they give in yet again to porn or heroin or drink, etc. You are currently experiencing consequences for disobeying God, I say this to you with respect, and care, as for a friend, but you are sitting here again asking me about someone who disobeyed God and thus died millennia ago. Why?

Didn't you say you were catholic?(in the past of your upbringing I'm meaning here) Or if not, you can't honestly say you're completely unaware they have anti contraception ideas based on their concept of deeming sex to be solely for the purpose of reproduction? Which is based on the story of Onan. Is that somehow a completely foreign concept to you?

Is there not a difference to you of, Person does something and suffers consequences and a person does something and GOD directly encats the consequences?

Or do you think every persons death is also being done to us by God as Onan and his brothers death were written out. Because if you believe the text is literal, there is a distinction there made that GOD made an action in this case. It's not mere free will consequences if God is directly intervening, but if that isn't the case, why is the wording there? That would be deciding the outcomes and choosing when to intervene, which contrasts at least what many say when they'll proclaim god doesn't intervene to contrast horrible diseases because of free will.

I can't follow you here. Please restate your questions, unless you meant them to be rhetorical. Thanks.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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27-03-2015, 01:23 PM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(24-03-2015 02:09 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(24-03-2015 01:47 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I hear what you are saying but doubt people come to TTA to scream at Christians because of masturbation frustration. Be honest, instead. Why not say because of existential frustration at not hearing from God? Because that we can address together.

People don't come to TTA to "scream" at Christians. They come to TTA to be with like-minded people, to learn, to teach, and to have fun. Then the Christians come too and mostly to troll. Not all, but most. That's when the gloves come off, but it's not "screaming". Just setting the record straight and not putting up with troll crap.

I find it telling when a theist comes to an atheist site to lecture and then accuses atheists of "screaming" at them. Something tells me, if an atheist went to a Christian site to lecture, you'd also call that screaming at Christians.

That's an old one, that y'all only scream at trolls upon occasion. Y'all start vicious, nasty threads by yourselves like F^&* the Pope in Rome without the help of trolls. These kinds of threads demean yourselves as well as your readers, posters and lurkers. And you all scream at me, and I'm no troll.

I know you scream at me (sometimes) because it's easier than addressing the logic, love and substance of many of my posts.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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27-03-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
To Q,

You need to be here playing devil's advocate else the echo become too much. Also where would be the lutz?
.

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27-03-2015, 04:25 PM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(27-03-2015 01:23 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I know you scream at me (sometimes) because it's easier than addressing the logic, ...

I am addressing your logic.

(12-03-2015 10:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Now, before you argue with me--remember any personal experience you may have had. If I masturbate five minutes before my wife asks me for sex--and the Bible says I am to pleasure her with sex if she requests it--and I love obeying God's commands! -- you do the refractory math. Drinking Beverage

So I think what you're saying is that cracking a nut prior to sex obeys God's command by increasing the pleasure of your partner because you can last like 30 minutes instead of 30 seconds. Yes?

#sigh
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30-03-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: Oh, man, Onan
(27-03-2015 02:18 PM)Billy Bob Wrote:  To Q,

You need to be here playing devil's advocate else the echo become too much. Also where would be the lutz?
.

A "lutz"? Sorry, don't follow you here.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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