Ohio 'heartbeat bill' - abortion
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13-12-2016, 03:31 PM
RE: Ohio 'heartbeat bill' - abortion
There was a time when I thought Satanists were probably the last people I would ever respect. Now I'm glad they're around. Smile

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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13-12-2016, 03:55 PM
RE: Ohio 'heartbeat bill' - abortion
(13-12-2016 03:31 PM)Impulse Wrote:  There was a time when I thought Satanists were probably the last people I would ever respect. Now I'm glad they're around. Smile

I'm pretty sure they're satirists mocking religion. At least that's how they seem to me. Big Grin

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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13-12-2016, 04:05 PM
RE: Ohio 'heartbeat bill' - abortion
(13-12-2016 03:55 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I'm pretty sure they're satirists mocking religion. At least that's how they seem to me. Big Grin
I completely agree. That's how the seem to me as well. When I didn't like them, it was back in my Catholic days.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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13-12-2016, 04:13 PM
RE: Ohio 'heartbeat bill' - abortion
I too used to think they were actual devil-worshipers and did evil black magicky stuffs.

Now I love em Big Grin

Ignorance is not to be ignored.

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13-12-2016, 05:20 PM
RE: Ohio 'heartbeat bill' - abortion
(12-12-2016 08:30 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(11-12-2016 06:15 AM)julep Wrote:  As someone who's lived near a couple of abortion clinics and had to walk a couple of times a week through a gauntlet of angry prayer-screamers just to get home, seeing the way they menaced anyone going near the clinic door, I just don't think many people who feel that strongly about the procedure do compartmentalize in that way. Charged words used deliberately to inflame and energize others...that's what I'm seeing from him here (and elsewhere on this site, too).

Agree to disagree, though, that's fine. Just an explanation as to what I think about V and his words and why.
I think you're letting your personal experiences color your judgment. Keep in mind, anyone protesting at abortion clinics are at the far extreme of the issue. Most people have strong opinions on the issue one way or the other, but relatively few actually protest at clinics.

This is NOT a black and white issue. Clearly. If it was, there wouldn't be such heated disagreement about it. This is why it bugs the hell out of me when anyone wants to decide for everyone what they should do either way. I have no problem with anyone expressing their viewpoint on the subject no matter what words they choose. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion no matter what that opinion is - again, because the issue is far from black and white. What counts is what people do or don't want to impose on others. When someone wants to legislate for all, that's what I will judge them on.

I understand and agree that people can have strongly negative personal feelings towards this issue and still take the position that abortion should be legal and that it is a personal choice. And people have a right to their feelings and shouldn't have to change or censor them. But for your consideration...

My experience, though limited, does include thousands of discussions and encounters--it's an issue women talk about a lot. Maybe I've just met the worst of the worst, but people I've met who use words like "abhorrent," even those who describe themselves as neutral legally about the issue, are also those who tend to take the position that it's just not a big deal for lawmakers to erect obstacle courses designed to make it hard for women to have abortions. (such as this heartbeat ban) Sure, they wouldn't enact laws that reflect their personal feelings, but they also won't oppose increasingly restrictive laws--which to me seems not particularly neutral, actually.
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13-12-2016, 06:03 PM
RE: Ohio 'heartbeat bill' - abortion
Governor Kasich has vetoed this bill.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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13-12-2016, 06:19 PM
RE: Ohio 'heartbeat bill' - abortion
But he signed a different one which is almost as bad.

He's just another republicunt motherfucker who thinks pregnancy is a great way to oppress women.

Fuck him.

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13-12-2016, 06:42 PM
RE: Ohio 'heartbeat bill' - abortion
(13-12-2016 06:19 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  But he signed a different one which is almost as bad.

He's just another republicunt motherfucker who thinks pregnancy is a great way to oppress women.

Fuck him.

If a woman is so stupid that she can't figure out that she is pregnant, schedule her abortion, then have the abortion procedure within 5 months she probably shouldn't be having sex. 5 months is plenty of damn time to get it done.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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13-12-2016, 07:06 PM
RE: Ohio 'heartbeat bill' - abortion
(13-12-2016 06:42 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(13-12-2016 06:19 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  But he signed a different one which is almost as bad.

He's just another republicunt motherfucker who thinks pregnancy is a great way to oppress women.

Fuck him.

If a woman is so stupid that she can't figure out that she is pregnant, schedule her abortion, then have the abortion procedure within 5 months she probably shouldn't be having sex. 5 months is plenty of damn time to get it done.

What if her boyfriend on which she was counting on to help her raise a child got cold feet and decided to leave her a few months before the B Day? What if employment situation radically changed for the worst? This isn't exactly common, but far from unexpected. Many young people, especially those with a strong religious background or firm beliefs in normative gender roles, view pregnancy as a great thing, but as time pass, they start to realise that TV and movies might have underestimated the kind of work it takes to raise a child properly. Plus, if she is indeed really stupid or careless do you really want that women to be in charge of a baby just for the sake of "teaching her a lesson"?

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14-12-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: Ohio 'heartbeat bill' - abortion
(13-12-2016 05:20 PM)julep Wrote:  I understand and agree that people can have strongly negative personal feelings towards this issue and still take the position that abortion should be legal and that it is a personal choice. And people have a right to their feelings and shouldn't have to change or censor them. But for your consideration...

My experience, though limited, does include thousands of discussions and encounters--it's an issue women talk about a lot. Maybe I've just met the worst of the worst, but people I've met who use words like "abhorrent," even those who describe themselves as neutral legally about the issue, are also those who tend to take the position that it's just not a big deal for lawmakers to erect obstacle courses designed to make it hard for women to have abortions. (such as this heartbeat ban) Sure, they wouldn't enact laws that reflect their personal feelings, but they also won't oppose increasingly restrictive laws--which to me seems not particularly neutral, actually.

Well first of all you were talking about Vosur who said from the outset that he's not interested in legislating against abortions. So, after that, the word "abhorrent" does amount to what you said in your first paragraph. Second, even with thousands of discussions, that's still very few compared to all people with a strong opinion on the subject. I'm guessing these people were probably in the same general geographic location too (correct me if I'm wrong) and could possibly be influenced by the general consensus in that area - just something that should be considered. Finally, I'm not sure what you mean by opposing restrictive laws. If you mean voting against them, how would you know what people do? If you mean something more direct - like protesting or lobbying - the fact is very few people get involved that way on either side of the argument so I don't see any strong point here.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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