Okay so now I'm not angry at God now what?
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14-12-2015, 08:53 AM
Okay so now I'm not angry at God now what?
@ EvolutionKills, thank you for that thought out reply. I know there a ton of gross things God did in the bible. Growing up it was hard for me to love a God who killed people. I think God didn't realize that people make mistakes.

I live with my parents who are hard core Christians. It's hard to get away from the subject. When I don't go to church dad teases me about it. I would like to tell him to stop but I don't want to upset him. I wish he wouldn't treat me like that little girl I used to be. For the most part dad treats me like an adult. But when it comes to church he expects me to go with him. I have no desire for church. I lost interest in religion. I just wish he would let me a lone about church. My thing is I have a hard time standing up for myself. I don't do it because I'm afraid of hurting someone. Sometimes I do if I am provoked very badly. I have a long fuse.

It'll be hard to get away from the subject of God in my house. For the most part I just hide away in my room. I plan on moving out next year so that'll make it a whole lot easier. No more worrying about church and crap.

I don't think I could bear to break my parents heart about my atheism. So for now I shall remain in the closet.

Thanks again! Smile
Thanks everyone for your support and replies Smile
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14-12-2015, 09:57 AM
RE: Okay so now I'm not angry at God now what?
(13-12-2015 10:32 PM)musicharmony87 Wrote:  
(12-12-2015 11:59 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Either you believe or you do not, 'belief' is operant condition determined by your current knowledge. Now you may or may not desire to again hold beliefs you once held dear, and that may get you to pretend or profess such a belief ('fake it till you make it'), but that won't actually change your beliefs without the addition of new information or reinterpretation of your current information. People certainly can contort their logic and perform feats of mental gymnastics in the pursuit of maintaining a belief against encroaching falsification, but even that is done as a way of limiting or mitigating knowledge that conflict with beliefs they desire to maintain.


It can be argued that we're hard-wired to desire answers, closure, and understanding; so much so that we'll often accept the first answer given or make them up, even if they're not true. Not only that, but it's actually pretty hard for many of us to change our mind and accept a different answer, even if we accepted our initial one uncritically and we now can be reasonable certain that our accepted answer is no longer correct or accurate.


Religion is in many ways our first attempts at many things, such as cosmology, geology, history, medicine, and philosophy. But because it is our first, it is our worst. Everything that has come afterwards has been better at more accurately determining what is factually accurate, and religion is now clearly not a reliable path to determine what is factually accurate.


So if you still desire answers as a balm to cure the unease caused by uncertainty, and you also value that your answer be factually accurate, then religion will not get you sufficient answers. If however you just want your answers handed to you on a silver platter with little thought, all of the comfort of certainty with none of the intellectual legwork, then religion fills that niche quite nicely; unfortunately it leaves an uncritical mind open to abuse.

How do I get closure from this religion? Tonight I just realized that God was not real. I been obsessing endlessly over this religion. I was in denial about it for so long. Then why is it hard for me to be upset over it? I got a bit emotional writing in my journal. I was writing that I was upset for wasting my time in the church and it made me upset for telling other people about this lie that is Christianity. It does bother me some but not like a whole lot. I would give it a 6 on the bothering scale. 6 being worse. Or maybe 7. Somewhere in there. I also proved to myself God wasn't real. I prayed that God would bring back my mother in her physical form. Not by a dream but in my waking life. He did not answer. My mom didn't come through the door at all. If God is all powerful couldn't he have brought back my mom? He brought Jesus back from the dead why not my mother? Because God is not real. I also realized that this religion cannot hurt me anymore. I don't know if that is a form of acceptance or what. I feel sorry for those who still believe. I hope that someday their God glasses come off.

Does anyone have any advice how I can stop obsessing over this religion? Im tired of always thinking about it. It eats at me and wears me out. Will it go away with time?

Yes, it goes away with time. Other, more interesting things will occupy you.

Think about your younger self. Remember a toy you were obsessed with that you didn't get, and now you just don't care? Or a person you had a crush on in sixth grade, how much energy and maybe pain that caused you at the time? You'll process your emotions over time (most likely--if you don't, it would help to see a professional to give you some expert assistance).

One thing that helps me get through times like this is to channel energy into fiction (instead of the journal, where I tend to stay a bit fixated on my problem). It's harder, but at the end of it I feel that the experience has been transformed, that I have power over it instead of the other way around.
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14-12-2015, 12:19 PM
Okay so now I'm not angry at God now what?
(14-12-2015 09:57 AM)julep Wrote:  
(13-12-2015 10:32 PM)musicharmony87 Wrote:  How do I get closure from this religion? Tonight I just realized that God was not real. I been obsessing endlessly over this religion. I was in denial about it for so long. Then why is it hard for me to be upset over it? I got a bit emotional writing in my journal. I was writing that I was upset for wasting my time in the church and it made me upset for telling other people about this lie that is Christianity. It does bother me some but not like a whole lot. I would give it a 6 on the bothering scale. 6 being worse. Or maybe 7. Somewhere in there. I also proved to myself God wasn't real. I prayed that God would bring back my mother in her physical form. Not by a dream but in my waking life. He did not answer. My mom didn't come through the door at all. If God is all powerful couldn't he have brought back my mom? He brought Jesus back from the dead why not my mother? Because God is not real. I also realized that this religion cannot hurt me anymore. I don't know if that is a form of acceptance or what. I feel sorry for those who still believe. I hope that someday their God glasses come off.

Does anyone have any advice how I can stop obsessing over this religion? Im tired of always thinking about it. It eats at me and wears me out. Will it go away with time?

Yes, it goes away with time. Other, more interesting things will occupy you.

Think about your younger self. Remember a toy you were obsessed with that you didn't get, and now you just don't care? Or a person you had a crush on in sixth grade, how much energy and maybe pain that caused you at the time? You'll process your emotions over time (most likely--if you don't, it would help to see a professional to give you some expert assistance).

One thing that helps me get through times like this is to channel energy into fiction (instead of the journal, where I tend to stay a bit fixated on my problem). It's harder, but at the end of it I feel that the experience has been transformed, that I have power over it instead of the other way around.

How has reading fiction helped you stay less fixated? Does it just get your mind off it? How does it give you power over the problem?
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14-12-2015, 12:25 PM
RE: Okay so now I'm not angry at God now what?
(14-12-2015 12:19 PM)musicharmony87 Wrote:  
(14-12-2015 09:57 AM)julep Wrote:  Yes, it goes away with time. Other, more interesting things will occupy you.

Think about your younger self. Remember a toy you were obsessed with that you didn't get, and now you just don't care? Or a person you had a crush on in sixth grade, how much energy and maybe pain that caused you at the time? You'll process your emotions over time (most likely--if you don't, it would help to see a professional to give you some expert assistance).

One thing that helps me get through times like this is to channel energy into fiction (instead of the journal, where I tend to stay a bit fixated on my problem). It's harder, but at the end of it I feel that the experience has been transformed, that I have power over it instead of the other way around.

How has reading fiction helped you stay less fixated? Does it just get your mind off it? How does it give you power over the problem?

Any belief system that claims to reward the faithful in the thereafter in exchange for their devotion here in life is nothing but a cargo cult. If you don't know what a cargo cult is, google the name John Frum.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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14-12-2015, 12:34 PM
RE: Okay so now I'm not angry at God now what?
(14-12-2015 12:19 PM)musicharmony87 Wrote:  
(14-12-2015 09:57 AM)julep Wrote:  Yes, it goes away with time. Other, more interesting things will occupy you.

Think about your younger self. Remember a toy you were obsessed with that you didn't get, and now you just don't care? Or a person you had a crush on in sixth grade, how much energy and maybe pain that caused you at the time? You'll process your emotions over time (most likely--if you don't, it would help to see a professional to give you some expert assistance).

One thing that helps me get through times like this is to channel energy into fiction (instead of the journal, where I tend to stay a bit fixated on my problem). It's harder, but at the end of it I feel that the experience has been transformed, that I have power over it instead of the other way around.

How has reading fiction helped you stay less fixated? Does it just get your mind off it? How does it give you power over the problem?

Writing fiction, not reading it.
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14-12-2015, 02:57 PM
RE: Okay so now I'm not angry at God now what?
(12-12-2015 10:11 PM)musicharmony87 Wrote:  But I still question why I don't want to believe anymore.
The truth (note: without capitalisation) isn't about individual wants.
A short while ago in a land far far away, many people suspected a force purveying all of space and time. The source of this force was a theoretical non observable, invisible Higgs field. As the theory goes, this Higgs field is the reason why objects have mass.
So do scientists get the choice to believe in the Higgs field? Do they decide to believe based on whether they want to believe or don't want to believe?
Is that how we get to decide on the truths of the universe, based on our own personal wants? We want something so we simply choose to believe it, we don't want something so we simply choose not to believe it?

What happened was that thousands of scientist from many countries got together and built the Large Hydron Collider, over 13 billion dollars was spent, and they proved the existence of a Higgs particle (a vibration in the Higgs field). They have recreatable experiments, huge amounts of recorded data, results from multiple test teams and this all leads to the objective conclusion that their experiments prove the existence of a Higgs Boson like particle. There is a one in a million chance that they are wrong.
The evidence is there. It's not a matter of whether you want to believe or want not to believe.
Knowledge discovery isn't about a choice between wanting to believe or wanting not to believe.
Belief is not a virtue. Belief is not a method of discovery.
If your beliefs are justified then they are based on evidence and logic and understanding. If your beliefs are unjustified then they are based on ignorance and close mindedness, it amounts to wishful thinking. You cannot wish something into existence.
You don't get to choose to believe in something based on your own personal wants.
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18-12-2015, 03:51 PM
RE: Okay so now I'm not angry at God now what?
(14-12-2015 02:57 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(12-12-2015 10:11 PM)musicharmony87 Wrote:  But I still question why I don't want to believe anymore.
The truth (note: without capitalisation) isn't about individual wants.
A short while ago in a land far far away, many people suspected a force purveying all of space and time. The source of this force was a theoretical non observable, invisible Higgs field. As the theory goes, this Higgs field is the reason why objects have mass.
So do scientists get the choice to believe in the Higgs field? Do they decide to believe based on whether they want to believe or don't want to believe?
Is that how we get to decide on the truths of the universe, based on our own personal wants? We want something so we simply choose to believe it, we don't want something so we simply choose not to believe it?

What happened was that thousands of scientist from many countries got together and built the Large Hydron Collider, over 13 billion dollars was spent, and they proved the existence of a Higgs particle (a vibration in the Higgs field). They have recreatable experiments, huge amounts of recorded data, results from multiple test teams and this all leads to the objective conclusion that their experiments prove the existence of a Higgs Boson like particle. There is a one in a million chance that they are wrong.
The evidence is there. It's not a matter of whether you want to believe or want not to believe.
Knowledge discovery isn't about a choice between wanting to believe or wanting not to believe.
Belief is not a virtue. Belief is not a method of discovery.
If your beliefs are justified then they are based on evidence and logic and understanding. If your beliefs are unjustified then they are based on ignorance and close mindedness, it amounts to wishful thinking. You cannot wish something into existence.
You don't get to choose to believe in something based on your own personal wants.
You are so right about that. You can't wish something into existence. I have been thinking more logically now. My parents way of thinking is so different then mine. They think god can work all things out. No that's not true. It's the people you are involved with help you. God has nothing to do with it. They just don't understand that people can help you. It's sad when they always rely on God to take care of things. They need to learn to rely on themselves and not some imaginary being.
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19-12-2015, 02:52 AM
RE: Okay so now I'm not angry at God now what?
(18-12-2015 03:51 PM)musicharmony87 Wrote:  It's sad when they always rely on God to take care of things. They need to learn to rely on themselves and not some imaginary being.
Isn't there a saying "God helps those who help themselves".

If a religious person takes this on board then their religion isn't necessarily crippling them. They instead put themselves in the driver's seat and work out a plan to navigate their own life. That plan being a series of steps which involves personal action. They might augment that by some prayer, perhaps of the type "Oh please god give me the fortitude, resolve and perseverance to see through to the end of my plan, no matter what obstacles may present themselves, let me be strong and confident and determined to see my way past any obstacles." I can see value in this prayer. It would have the same value if they just wrote it down in a personal diary. "Dear diary, I have a plan, I have broken that down into achievable steps. As usual, I expect life to throw up some surprises, some obstacles, I know I will need fortitude, resolve and perseverance to see through to the end of my plan. I believe in my goal and believe it is worth the effort to overcome any obstacle. I need to be strong and stay true to myself and not let myself down"
When they do feel weak and have come a croppa with some obstacle, they could go back and read their diary.


Rather than a plan that relies on an action from the god. e.g. "God, please give me a sign" or "God, please remove this obstacle for me", or "God, please show me the way. I don't know what to do, I am lost."
This god reliance thing would have them do nothing, just wait for something to come up that they interpret as a sign from god.
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19-12-2015, 06:27 AM
RE: Okay so now I'm not angry at God now what?
(12-12-2015 10:11 PM)musicharmony87 Wrote:  I been angry at God for 4 years and now I'm not angry. I'm as happy as can be. I've been doing research about religion and the Big Bang hoping to get answers of gods existence. I watched a wonderful documentary about the Big Bang and Stephen Hawking narrated it. He then got me thinking and I kept on researching. What he said in the documentary made a whole lot of sense! He said something a long the lines of there was no time for God to create the earth because there was no time. I think he also said that before the Big Bang there was no God. It made a whole lot of sense to me and he just made me think.

So now I'm like okay I found out my answer. Then I research religion and find out it was made to control the masses. Okay so I found that out.

My point is I still don't want to pursue this religion anymore. But I still question why I don't want to believe anymore.

Why don't you believe the Egyptian god Ra makes the sun move? Why don't you believe that Thor Causes lightening? Why don't you believe that the ocean god Poseidon causes hurricanes? Because you didn't grow up in those societies back when those things were truly believed. Just like you would find it absurd being older if someone still insisted Santa was real. Cant go back when logic kills your delusions.

Now as far as "hate is concerned", that is not the core reason one should reject a claim, the only reason one should reject any claim on any subject is lack of evidence.

But, having said that I think it is certainly reasonable to hate bad logic that leads humans to come to bad conclusions. I also think it is ok to hate the way a character is depicted in historical literature just like you'd hate Darth Vader. But certainly it is ok to hate when humans hide behind a religion, pick up a holy book, and justify harm to others. It is ok to hate religion attacking science or trying to falsely pretend it is the gatekeeper of science.

Humans have rights, yes, and our human empathy allows for others to make claims we don't agree with, but ideas as claims should never get blind value or be free from scrutiny or even blasphemy.

If our species never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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19-12-2015, 09:17 AM
Okay so now I'm not angry at God now what?
(19-12-2015 06:27 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(12-12-2015 10:11 PM)musicharmony87 Wrote:  I been angry at God for 4 years and now I'm not angry. I'm as happy as can be. I've been doing research about religion and the Big Bang hoping to get answers of gods existence. I watched a wonderful documentary about the Big Bang and Stephen Hawking narrated it. He then got me thinking and I kept on researching. What he said in the documentary made a whole lot of sense! He said something a long the lines of there was no time for God to create the earth because there was no time. I think he also said that before the Big Bang there was no God. It made a whole lot of sense to me and he just made me think.

So now I'm like okay I found out my answer. Then I research religion and find out it was made to control the masses. Okay so I found that out.

My point is I still don't want to pursue this religion anymore. But I still question why I don't want to believe anymore.

Why don't you believe the Egyptian god Ra makes the sun move? Why don't you believe that Thor Causes lightening? Why don't you believe that the ocean god Poseidon causes hurricanes? Because you didn't grow up in those societies back when those things were truly believed. Just like you would find it absurd being older if someone still insisted Santa was real. Cant go back when logic kills your delusions.

Now as far as "hate is concerned", that is not the core reason one should reject a claim, the only reason one should reject any claim on any subject is lack of evidence.

But, having said that I think it is certainly reasonable to hate bad logic that leads humans to come to bad conclusions. I also think it is ok to hate the way a character is depicted in historical literature just like you'd hate Darth Vader. But certainly it is ok to hate when humans hide behind a religion, pick up a holy book, and justify harm to others. It is ok to hate religion attacking science or trying to falsely pretend it is the gatekeeper of science.

Humans have rights, yes, and our human empathy allows for others to make claims we don't agree with, but ideas as claims should never get blind value or be free from scrutiny or even blasphemy.

If our species never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.

I don't believe in God anymore. I realized that he can't bring back my dead mother. If he was all powerful he could bring her back but he didn't. It makes me think God is a wimp and not real. That was a big realization for me. Ever since then I haven't been obsessing too much on religion. I still think about it but I have other things to worry about.
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