Old Believers, and the Young Nones
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29-05-2015, 07:38 AM
Old Believers, and the Young Nones
I always thought the interesting part of the outgrowth of the nones and atheists is that they predominately arise from the Millennials, while the older a religious person gets the less likely they are to abandon those beliefs later on.

I’m more likely to find fairies under the garden before my mother ever becomes an atheists. But among the wandering young, those who are still trying to figure themselves out, there seems to be a very real possibly that they may one day not believe. I had my none phase in my early twenties primarily, and I didn’t really know much about atheism. There weren’t really atheists forums, or communities of other nones to talk to. Those who were likely nones just like me just didn’t particularly talk about it, or care to. There were no best selling books, like the God Delusion, or the constant trumpets of everything wrong with religion. My noneism was sort of trapped in a vacuum, with very little water or soil to let it blossom.

In hindsight, I think if this period occurred when Atheism finally made it into the spot light, there’s a good chance that I may have been an atheists now. Perhaps I’d be attending atheists convention, or Dawkin’s next book-signing, attaching a scarlet letter to my Facebook profile, or joining my local humanist group. If religion seeks the first several years of a child’s life, as the prime age to instill religious beliefs. Atheisms most receptive audience is the millennials, in that period in which one is more prone to protest and rebel against the reigning traditions, resist the shell their communities and families have tried to cast on them, in the age in which they are trying to develop their own sense of self, and their own unique identities. At least in my opinion.

After this period, people just tend to solidify their already held beliefs. Those streams of doubt, those nagging suspicions, slowly get replaced by constant reinforcing. The world just begins to break down into our preconceived views of it. And the longer this goes on, the higher our walls become or more impenetrable they appear. At least in my opinion.

People here seem to get offended, when I tell them that I don’t know how not to believe. Wondering how can he be so confident in his own horseshit? The truth is that it appears that I’ve already started the descent into becoming like my mother. And my children will likely think the same of me, that it’s more likely that they’ll find fairies under the garden, than their father ever becoming an atheist.

Belief and unbelief, those crises in our worldviews, that often lead us to create new ones, all seem to dependent on periods in our life when we are most vulnerable to it, and once that vulnerability has been closed, it all seems like a lost cause for those seeking to win converts.

At least in my opinion.
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29-05-2015, 07:41 AM
RE: Old Believers, and the Young Nones
Or they have grown up in a world where it is harder to hide reality and information from the youth. A world where religion murders thousands en masse or protects pedophiles or supports climate change denial or denies humans the right to marry or...etc etc etc

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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29-05-2015, 07:47 AM
RE: Old Believers, and the Young Nones
So basically you're to stubborn to educate yourself or even open your mind.

So why are you here?
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29-05-2015, 07:48 AM
RE: Old Believers, and the Young Nones
I don't think this is a "rebellion" thing, I just think that religion is finding it hard to identify with younger people. A lot of religion in this country holds these ass-backwards beliefs about sex, women, and gays. And younger people can't stomach that. Those young people that are keeping religion are often those in more universal and accepting churches.

There is also the growth of knowledge and information which does decimate the miraculous and supernatural claims of religion. It's hard to argue some of the more extreme fundamentalist views when the evidence against them is so readily available and plentiful. That's why fundie parents home-school, to keep their kids away from this knowledge.

And finally, yes, it is more socially acceptable to be non-religious now than it used to be.
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29-05-2015, 07:54 AM
RE: Old Believers, and the Young Nones
(29-05-2015 07:38 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I always thought the interesting part of the outgrowth of the nones and atheists is that they predominately arise from the Millennials, while the older a religious person gets the less likely they are to abandon those beliefs later on.

I’m more likely to find fairies under the garden before my mother ever becomes an atheists. But among the wandering young, those who are still trying to figure themselves out, there seems to be a very real possibly that they may one day not believe. I had my none phase in my early twenties primarily, and I didn’t really know much about atheism. There weren’t really atheists forums, or communities of other nones to talk to. Those who were likely nones just like me just didn’t particularly talk about it, or care to. There were no best selling books, like the God Delusion, or the constant trumpets of everything wrong with religion. My noneism was sort of trapped in a vacuum, with very little water or soil to let it blossom.

In hindsight, I think if this period occurred when Atheism finally made it into the spot light, there’s a good chance that I may have been an atheists now. Perhaps I’d be attending atheists convention, or Dawkin’s next book-signing, attaching a scarlet letter to my Facebook profile, or joining my local humanist group. If religion seeks the first several years of a child’s life, as the prime age to instill religious beliefs. Atheisms most receptive audience is the millennials, in that period in which one is more prone to protest and rebel against the reigning traditions, resist the shell their communities and families have tried to cast on them, in the age in which they are trying to develop their own sense of self, and their own unique identities. At least in my opinion.

After this period, people just tend to solidify their already held beliefs. Those streams of doubt, those nagging suspicions, slowly get replaced by constant reinforcing. The world just begins to break down into our preconceived views of it. And the longer this goes on, the higher our walls become or more impenetrable they appear. At least in my opinion.

People here seem to get offended, when I tell them that I don’t know how not to believe. Wondering how can he be so confident in his own horseshit? The truth is that it appears that I’ve already started the descent into becoming like my mother. And my children will likely think the same of me, that it’s more likely that they’ll find fairies under the garden, than their father ever becoming an atheist.

Belief and unbelief, those crises in our worldviews, that often lead us to create new ones, all seem to dependent on periods in our life when we are most vulnerable to it, and once that vulnerability has been closed, it all seems like a lost cause for those seeking to win converts.

At least in my opinion.

The is likely some validity to what you pointed out here, but there is so much more to it if you focus on the "mellennial" generation in particular. They have had unprecedented access to information and various worldviews, where generations before had limits to what they could be exposed to (easily, I would stress).

There are quite a lot of folks like me who never bought into any faith system or mindset, and also many who decide in their 40's and 50's that facts and evidence trump wishful thinking.

I am curious if you think it is a bad thing, or negative aspect of recent generations that they do not blindly swallow whatever unfounded worldview that may be taught to them as "the way you should"?

The value in the sciences has pretty much forced young folks to have more clashes with faith based views, and forced them to side with what is proven, and not what "feels so good".

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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29-05-2015, 08:02 AM
RE: Old Believers, and the Young Nones
Thinking about this further, please don't even tell me you are subtly trying to blame those stupid and rebellious teens for the rise of atheism? Teens 60 years ago were quite the rebels, but did not denounce god. It is information, value of truth, progress and evolution as intelligent humans that does away with the need for supernatural deities (at any age).

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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29-05-2015, 08:04 AM (This post was last modified: 29-05-2015 08:24 AM by TheBeardedDude.)
RE: Old Believers, and the Young Nones
(29-05-2015 08:02 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Thinking about this further, please don't even tell me you are subtly trying to blame those stupid and rebellious teens for the rise of atheism? Teens 60 years ago were quite the rebels, but did not denounce god. It is information, value of truth, progress and evolution as intelligent humans that does away with the need for supernatural deities (at any age).

That is exactly what he seems to be getting at. That somehow it is a naivety in youth that results in all this godlessness

What a novel idea /sarcasmfont Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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29-05-2015, 08:05 AM (This post was last modified: 29-05-2015 08:09 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Old Believers, and the Young Nones
(29-05-2015 07:38 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
Belief and unbelief, those crises in our worldviews, that often lead us to create new ones, all seem to dependent on periods in our life when we are most vulnerable to it, and once that vulnerability has been closed, it all seems like a lost cause for those seeking to win converts.

At least in my opinion.

Not just your opinion.

[Image: heisseven.jpg]

I feel fortunate that my parents encouraged me to learn how to think rather than teaching me what to think.

The rise of the 'nones' could be due to the possibility that critical thinking skills have improved and children are not as intellectually isolated (cos Internet) as they used to be.

Or it could be gaming ... distractions and apathy.

Big Grin

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29-05-2015, 08:06 AM
RE: Old Believers, and the Young Nones
(29-05-2015 07:47 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  So basically you're to stubborn to educate yourself or even open your mind.

No, I read from a variety of perspectives all the time. I'm making my way through Breaking the Spell, currently.

Are you educating yourself on various religious perspectives? Are any of those writings causing you to doubt you disbelief? Probably not, if anything they are likely just confirming your original suspicions. And the more you read, the more you realize there's nothing new under the sun.

Quote:So why are you here?

For the hors d'oeuvre.
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29-05-2015, 08:07 AM
RE: Old Believers, and the Young Nones
(29-05-2015 08:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(29-05-2015 07:47 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  So basically you're to stubborn to educate yourself or even open your mind.

No, I read from a variety of perspectives all the time. I'm making my way through Breaking the Spell, currently.

Are you educating yourself on various religious perspectives? Are any of those writings causing you to doubt you disbelief? Probably not, if anything they are likely just confirming your original suspicions. And the more you read, the more you realize there's nothing new under the sun.

Quote:So why are you here?

For the hors d'oeuvre.

Why are atheists on an atheist forum? You really just asked that?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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