Oldest Modern-looking finger bone sheds light on Human evolution
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19-08-2015, 04:41 PM
RE: Oldest Modern-looking finger bone sheds light on Human evolution
(19-08-2015 11:49 AM)Learner Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 08:05 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  PS. I worked at the PTK site where the phalanx was discovered. You can read about my days at PTK on my Africa blog.

https://anapeinafrica.wordpress.com/?s=PTK

Maybe I missed it in reading through your blog, but I read how you were saying that that area was a "paleoanthropological goldmine." What's the history of this area, in terms of why there are so many fossils being found here?

Simple. Olduvai Gorge (and the area) is the cradle of the human species.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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19-08-2015, 05:53 PM
RE: Oldest Modern-looking finger bone sheds light on Human evolution
(18-08-2015 09:01 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Whoa... did some digging to find the article on K. platyops, and saw what I'd missed, before. The find pushed back our "earliest tools found" date by 700,000 years. !!!

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-32804177

I read about that awhile ago. It's pretty neat. One study showed chimps have been using stone tools for at least 4,300 years (obviously much longer). This was derived from analyzing ancient starch granules found on stone tools. I worked with the author of this paper too.

(19-08-2015 11:49 AM)Learner Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 08:05 PM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  PS. I worked at the PTK site where the phalanx was discovered. You can read about my days at PTK on my Africa blog.

https://anapeinafrica.wordpress.com/?s=PTK

Maybe I missed it in reading through your blog, but I read how you were saying that that area was a "paleoanthropological goldmine." What's the history of this area, in terms of why there are so many fossils being found here?

This is from my entry for the first day of the field school:

"We remained in the dining area after breakfast and listened to a lecture on the geological history of the Gorge by the geologist Dr. Gail Ashley from Rutgers University. We learned that the Gorge was part of the East African Rift, a very geologically active area created by the divergence of two tectonic plates. This parting of the landmass created a vast depression in which lakes and volcanoes worked to fossilize flora and fauna over millions of years. The Gorge itself is comprised of a layer cake of lake sediment and volcanic tuff 100 meters thick, corresponding to a period spanning 2 million years. Analyzing these layers and the fossils within can help scientists reconstruct the paleo environment. This shows that the Gorge was formed by a river that flowed eastward and down cut into the earth thanks to the titling of the diverging plates."

Basically, our early hominin ancestors lived in the area due to the presence of water (all of the world's great human civilizations sprang up around rivers). Olduvai Gorge was home to Homo habilis, Homo ergaster (the African variety of Homo erectus), and Paranthropus boisei, a member of the robust Australophithecines.
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19-08-2015, 06:43 PM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2015 06:47 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Oldest Modern-looking finger bone sheds light on Human evolution
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  "thought to be' ... unidentified modern-looking hominin ..... sounds pretty hypothemtical to me... and when the author says the species has straight bones, how does a species COMMIT to living on the ground, when evolution or chance and luck dictates a so called open ended spectrum. And besides, genetics shows nothing we do in life changes our DNA, it is separated early in embriology and development.

I think the absolute beauty and ratio of human bones is a design by the template of design called the Golden Section, it is why our hands are beautiful and adaptable and awesome in function and design... and beauty.

Straight by design, not because they luckily straightened out when monkeys left trees.

.618, 1.000, 1.618, 2.618, etc etc etc etc..

You 'think' that?

Sounds pretty (or even beautifully) hypothemtical to me too.

Undecided

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19-08-2015, 07:08 PM
RE: Oldest Modern-looking finger bone sheds light on Human evolution
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  "thought to be' ... unidentified modern-looking hominin ..... sounds pretty hypothemtical to me... and when the author says the species has straight bones, how does a species COMMIT to living on the ground, when evolution or chance and luck dictates a so called open ended spectrum. And besides, genetics shows nothing we do in life changes our DNA, it is separated early in embriology and development.

I think the absolute beauty and ratio of human bones is a design by the template of design called the Golden Section, it is why our hands are beautiful and adaptable and awesome in function and design... and beauty.

Straight by design, not because they luckily straightened out when monkeys left trees.

.618, 1.000, 1.618, 2.618, etc etc etc etc..

"Commit" does not mean that evolution made a decision. It means the group of our ancestors struck out into the open from the (disappearing) forests, and underwent changes over time as a result. Many species strike out into new niches and then undergo significant selective pressure for traits that help them to better-adapt to the new strategy; this is one of the fundamental principles underlying allopatric speciation.

I have no idea why you think the Golden Ratio has an influence on whether our finger-bones are adapted to forest or savanna environments.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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20-08-2015, 07:56 AM (This post was last modified: 20-08-2015 08:04 AM by ghostexorcist.)
RE: Oldest Modern-looking finger bone sheds light on Human evolution
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  "thought to be' ... unidentified modern-looking hominin ..... sounds pretty hypothemtical to me... and when the author says the species has straight bones, how does a species COMMIT to living on the ground, when evolution or chance and luck dictates a so called open ended spectrum. And besides, genetics shows nothing we do in life changes our DNA, it is separated early in embriology and development.

I think the absolute beauty and ratio of human bones is a design by the template of design called the Golden Section, it is why our hands are beautiful and adaptable and awesome in function and design... and beauty.

Straight by design, not because they luckily straightened out when monkeys left trees.

.618, 1.000, 1.618, 2.618, etc etc etc etc..

The notion that the bone is straight is very important in understanding when this trait came into existence. This is because our modern ape cousins, who are adapted to climbing in trees, actually have long, curved finger bones. This provides a vice-like grip for when they are grasping limbs. (These are chimp bones.)

[Image: RqLCSB.jpg][Image: y3cQqz.jpg]

Curved hand bones were present in the Ardipithecine species who lived around 5 million years ago.

[Image: HhEt7C.jpg]

But it is very important to note that these human ancestors had a more modern-looking pelvis, which lends itself to a bipedal gate. (Notice how flat the chimpanzee pelvis is (farthest to the right). This is because they walk on all fours, mainly).

[Image: 9RNXSe.jpg]

(Ardipithecus ramidus)

[Image: ai6fI0.jpg]

Think about that for a moment; these creatures had ape-like hands, but could stand upright similar to humans. How could this be? This is an instance of "mosaic evolution". Every part of an animal's body does not evolve in step with everything else. It's actually a gradual process. The fact that the Ardipthecines had ape-like hands and bipedal pelvises shows that they both lived in and near trees, but also had to stand upright for foraging and/or walk upright for a limited amount of team between wooded areas for, say, food or socialization. The fact that this new find is straight shows that we had lived away from the trees long enough not to need the aforementioned vice-like grip. These changes are simply adaptations to changes in environment.
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20-08-2015, 09:11 AM
RE: Oldest Modern-looking finger bone sheds light on Human evolution
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  and when the author says the species has straight bones, how does a species COMMIT to living on the ground,
It doesn't, that's what it's best suited for at the time
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  when evolution or chance and luck dictates a so called open ended spectrum.
No, it doesn't
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  And besides, genetics shows nothing we do in life changes our DNA,
Your DNA does not remain consistent throughout your life
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  I think the absolute beauty and ratio of human bones is a design by the template of design called the Golden Section
As a human, of course you would. If a bird could like about this it would say the beauty and proportion of the bird skeleton is the ideal. Or the same with a crocodile, or a shark, etc.

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20-08-2015, 03:22 PM
RE: Oldest Modern-looking finger bone sheds light on Human evolution
(19-08-2015 06:43 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  "thought to be' ... unidentified modern-looking hominin ..... sounds pretty hypothemtical to me... and when the author says the species has straight bones, how does a species COMMIT to living on the ground, when evolution or chance and luck dictates a so called open ended spectrum. And besides, genetics shows nothing we do in life changes our DNA, it is separated early in embriology and development.

I think the absolute beauty and ratio of human bones is a design by the template of design called the Golden Section, it is why our hands are beautiful and adaptable and awesome in function and design... and beauty.

Straight by design, not because they luckily straightened out when monkeys left trees.

.618, 1.000, 1.618, 2.618, etc etc etc etc..

You 'think' that?

Sounds pretty (or even beautifully) hypothemtical to me too.

Undecided

No, its just basic math combined with sacred geometry, which makes biology understandable rather than making it magical and mystical and a product of lucky chance by the god of evolution
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20-08-2015, 03:27 PM
RE: Oldest Modern-looking finger bone sheds light on Human evolution
(19-08-2015 07:08 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  "thought to be' ... unidentified modern-looking hominin ..... sounds pretty hypothemtical to me... and when the author says the species has straight bones, how does a species COMMIT to living on the ground, when evolution or chance and luck dictates a so called open ended spectrum. And besides, genetics shows nothing we do in life changes our DNA, it is separated early in embriology and development.

I think the absolute beauty and ratio of human bones is a design by the template of design called the Golden Section, it is why our hands are beautiful and adaptable and awesome in function and design... and beauty.

Straight by design, not because they luckily straightened out when monkeys left trees.

.618, 1.000, 1.618, 2.618, etc etc etc etc..

"Commit" does not mean that evolution made a decision. It means the group of our ancestors struck out into the open from the (disappearing) forests, and underwent changes over time as a result. Many species strike out into new niches and then undergo significant selective pressure for traits that help them to better-adapt to the new strategy; this is one of the fundamental principles underlying allopatric speciation.

I have no idea why you think the Golden Ratio has an influence on whether our finger-bones are adapted to forest or savanna environments.

Species brain waves in no way change their DNA..... a true random variation of fingers would make them follow devoid crooked fingers, or change their golden section ratio'd template shown in their hands from the ideal to a wierd structure. Species do not commit themselves, as that is double speak, making it shound like they think through their so called evolutionary process.

Most evolutionary lingo is in the realm of linquistics rather than science. It appeals to readers who have no science background, but has no scientific basis.
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20-08-2015, 03:32 PM
RE: Oldest Modern-looking finger bone sheds light on Human evolution
(20-08-2015 09:11 AM)LostLocke Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  and when the author says the species has straight bones, how does a species COMMIT to living on the ground,
It doesn't, that's what it's best suited for at the time
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  when evolution or chance and luck dictates a so called open ended spectrum.
No, it doesn't
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  And besides, genetics shows nothing we do in life changes our DNA,
Your DNA does not remain consistent throughout your life
(19-08-2015 02:28 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  I think the absolute beauty and ratio of human bones is a design by the template of design called the Golden Section
As a human, of course you would. If a bird could like about this it would say the beauty and proportion of the bird skeleton is the ideal. Or the same with a crocodile, or a shark, etc.
Birds didnt fluke their bone structure via magic beneficial mutations, that gave them strength and light weight. It wasn't magic, that created their perfectly designed talents.

You cant or shouldnt give birds the credit for making themselves or their bones or thinking they just magically made themselves, as all the negative mutations somehow grounded the billions of non beneficial mutations.

Remember mutations do not come about by success or failures, but only by random chaotic mutations that magically change bird structure.
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20-08-2015, 03:57 PM
RE: Oldest Modern-looking finger bone sheds light on Human evolution
(20-08-2015 03:22 PM)Davidjayjordan Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 06:43 PM)DLJ Wrote:  You 'think' that?

Sounds pretty (or even beautifully) hypothemtical to me too.

Undecided

No, its just basic math combined with sacred geometry, which makes biology understandable rather than making it magical and mystical and a product of lucky chance by the god of evolution

Huh

The what?

I'm calling POE!

Laugh out load

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