Olivet discourse
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30-04-2013, 03:15 PM
RE: Olivet discourse
(30-04-2013 11:25 AM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  More it just keeps coming.

Daniel predicted 490 years of Israel's history. 70 weeks of days equals 490 years. All scholars understand the prophesy... He even predicted Messiah's death.

I can't respond to this in detail at the moment but I will say that biblical scholars place the actual writing of the book of Mark ( the first book ) after 70 A.D. with the other gospels following afterword. Indeed, my first response to this persons claim would be how they are certain that the Gospel of Mark accurately describes Jesus's words when we have such a late date on it.

"A general range of dating for the Gospel of Mark can be suggested with reference to the external evidence. If the tradition of Markan authorship is accepted, Irenaeus implies that the Gospel of Mark was written after the death of Peter, traditionally set in Rome c. 65 CE. If the tradition is not accepted, as Nineham states (op. cit., p. 41), "Those who are cautious about accepting the Papias tradition can hardly put the lower limit much earlier, for they must allow time for the oral tradition to have developed in the way described above." The terminus ad quem is set by the incorporation of Mark into the Gospel of Matthew and into the Gospel of Luke. If the Gospel of Matthew was written in the last two decades of the first century, the most probable range of dating for the Gospel of Mark is from 65 to 80 CE."

"Mark's "Little Apocalypse" in chapter 13 is usually regarded as speaking of the events of the First Jewish Revolt, which took place 66-70 CE. The events surrounding the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple left a deep impression on the Jews of the time. Jerusalem and the Temple were the center of religious life for Palestinian Jews, and the war with the Romans had ravaged the countryside and left thousands dead. Thus, it is understandable that some would associate these horrible events with the end times. An exegesis of Mark 13 shows how the author's description corresponds with the calamities of the First Jewish Revolt."




[/b]Also, future reference, always get and give specifics. Next time you ask a question either paste this persons response or at least give us the basic details of what he's getting at so that we don't have to keep asking. I have no idea who your talking to and what he's trying to say. I'll hopefully give you more by tonight.

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30-04-2013, 03:50 PM
RE: Olivet discourse
(30-04-2013 03:15 PM)Foxcanine1 Wrote:  
(30-04-2013 11:25 AM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  More it just keeps coming.

Daniel predicted 490 years of Israel's history. 70 weeks of days equals 490 years. All scholars understand the prophesy... He even predicted Messiah's death.

I can't respond to this in detail at the moment but I will say that biblical scholars place the actual writing of the book of Mark ( the first book ) after 70 A.D. with the other gospels following afterword. Indeed, my first response to this persons claim would be how they are certain that the Gospel of Mark accurately describes Jesus's words when we have such a late date on it.

"A general range of dating for the Gospel of Mark can be suggested with reference to the external evidence. If the tradition of Markan authorship is accepted, Irenaeus implies that the Gospel of Mark was written after the death of Peter, traditionally set in Rome c. 65 CE. If the tradition is not accepted, as Nineham states (op. cit., p. 41), "Those who are cautious about accepting the Papias tradition can hardly put the lower limit much earlier, for they must allow time for the oral tradition to have developed in the way described above." The terminus ad quem is set by the incorporation of Mark into the Gospel of Matthew and into the Gospel of Luke. If the Gospel of Matthew was written in the last two decades of the first century, the most probable range of dating for the Gospel of Mark is from 65 to 80 CE."

"Mark's "Little Apocalypse" in chapter 13 is usually regarded as speaking of the events of the First Jewish Revolt, which took place 66-70 CE. The events surrounding the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple left a deep impression on the Jews of the time. Jerusalem and the Temple were the center of religious life for Palestinian Jews, and the war with the Romans had ravaged the countryside and left thousands dead. Thus, it is understandable that some would associate these horrible events with the end times. An exegesis of Mark 13 shows how the author's description corresponds with the calamities of the First Jewish Revolt."




[/b]Also, future reference, always get and give specifics. Next time you ask a question either paste this persons response or at least give us the basic details of what he's getting at so that we don't have to keep asking. I have no idea who your talking to and what he's trying to say. I'll hopefully give you more by tonight.

Ok I'll be sure to do that next time. He is saying that Jesus prophecy about the temple being destroyed came true.

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01-05-2013, 06:01 AM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2013 10:47 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Olivet discourse
(30-04-2013 11:23 AM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  This is what he said.

Jesus said that the Temple in Jerusalem was going to be destroyed before the generation he was speaking to were gone. He said that in 33 AD. Rome destroyed the Temple in 70 AD..

Jebus said no such thing. The gospels were written LATER, after the temple was destroyed, and that line was a literary device, "placed" in his mouth", to make it appear that he was doing an accurate prediction. If you're going to play their stupid game, you're going to lose. Daniel was an "apocalyptic". All the messiahs died. Simon of Perea, Simon bar Kochba, Yeshua ben Joseph, (who may not even have been a real person). Of course they did. All humans die. It proves nothing. "All scholars" is bullshit. Let's see the poll. Most mainline scholars (as was pointed out above) IN NO WAY ACCEPT "PROPHECY" as *prediction*. What is it about that you don't get ? It's American Hollywood "Bible bullshit". NOT SCHOLARSHIP. There were many messiahs, and many apocalyptic preachers. Jebus was one of many. They're all dead. That leaves anyone discussing the subject at square one. The role of a prophet was to be a "mouthpiece" of their god, (adviser) TO THE PEOPLE OF THEIR OWN TIME. Not a soothsayer. Not a "predictor". That "prediction" shit is History Channel "aliens did it" crap. Soothsaying and divination were forbidden.

The MAIN JOB of a "messiah" (for the few Jews who were "apocalyptics"), was to restore the kingdom. He failed at that. Jebus was not the messiah. No one can claim he was a messiah, if he failed at the ONE thing he was supposed to get done. Even the disciples thought that was his job. Acts 1:6 Even AFTER he was dead, it has them asking him "Lord wilt thou at this time restore the kingdom". That was their understanding of him. He failed. Read his answer to them. Obviously it was "manufactured" to address a growing concern about this seeming failure. If you're going to buy into the shit of what the gospels say as accurate "history", (which they are not ... they are faith documents, written for *proclamation* ... as in "proclaim the gospel* ... during worship events to . remind themselves what they already believed), then you're just as bad as fundie believers. It's a stupid, uneducated, bullshit game of ignorance of the ancient Near East, and it's literature.

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Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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