Omegle - My first conversation with a "Christian".
18-08-2012, 07:49 PM
Omegle - My first conversation with a "Christian".
This was painful...
I guess he just got tired of talking...
You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!
You and the stranger both like religion.
You: Are you religious?
Stranger: depends how you would define it i guess
You: Well, do you claim a religion, are you a deist, an agnostic, atheist?
Stranger: I would classify myself as a Christian i guess.
Stranger: But no real sect.
You: Oh ok. So, you don't claim a denomination?
You: What would say is the closest denomination to you?
Stranger: That's impossible for me to say. I would probaly align closest with catholics or protostants because I do not consider myself to be an evangelical.
You: Catholics and Protestants are almost completely opposite and evangelicals are Protestants.
Stranger: some protestants do not consider themselves evangelicals.
Stranger: And I disagree that they are complete opposites.
Stranger: Only real differences are Mary, the Pope and a few other small things.
You: Anything that isn't Anglican and Catholic is Protestant.
You: Catholics are more ritualistic, but I can see where you're coming from.
You: Do you believe in the Doctrine of Free Will or the Doctrine of Election?
Stranger: What is the doctrine of election?
Stranger: Not really sure.
You: God chooses people for salvation
Stranger: I don't study theology so i'm not really qualified to study the bible at that level.
You: I understand.
You: How do you study? Do you read and let God speak to you?
Stranger: I don't really study at all.
You: Now, I'm curious.
You: Why do you claim Christianity?
Stranger: well, I have heard numerous historians make the case that Christ existed, and the resurrection did indeed take place.
You: Many historians have also claimed the opposite.
Stranger: I haven't heard many provide evidence to the contrary.
You: What I want to know is why you claim to be a Christian... is it because that's what you were taught? A decision you made? If you don't study the Bible, how do you know what God wants.
You: There is a whole load of it... I don't believe it, and it's sketchy, but it is there.
Stranger: I have no idea what god wants
Stranger: never claimed to know.
Stranger: I could read the bible, but it would do no good.
You: Are you just a Christian by default then? Have you ever wondered why you're a Christian?
Stranger: I'm a chrisitan because i believe Christ was the son of god.
You: Don't you think it's important to read the Bible?
Stranger: I have no idea.
Stranger: I think it's counter productive to read it unless you have a deep background in theology
Stranger: which most people don't have.
You: Okay, fair enough, but why do you believe Christ is the Son of God?
Stranger: including myself.
Stranger: i already stated it for you.
You: I don't agree with you on that point.
Stranger: nobody is making you.
You: I know. But simply because Christ existed isn't evidence enough that He's the Son of God.
Stranger: I didn't say it was
Stranger: That with the resurrection is, in my opinion.
You: Historians do not say that the resurrection happened. They do say that Christ existed. Many historians are irreligious; therefore, do not believe in the supernatural. The only historians that you will find that say Christ's resurrection happened are the Christian ones.
You: His resurrection isn't secular fact. This is a reason that you said you were a Christian.
Stranger: well you tell me your reasons then.
You: God changed me without my permission. He changed me supernaturally, and the only evidence I can present to that is anecdotal. I have no formal theological training, but that didn't stop me from studying. I now consider myself an amateur scholar in theology... simply because I let God teach me and I learned on my own. Reading and studying the Bible was a huge part in my understanding of Christianity and my relationship with God.
You: So... faith.
Stranger: How did god teach you exactly?
You: I would read something and have no idea what it was saying. I would pray on it and ask God to reveal whatever He wants to reveal to me. I would then also research the theology and read what other theologians said. From the information, the Holy Spirit reveal what I'm supposed to take away from the texts.
Stranger: So, therefore everyone else who reads the bible and prays will have the same outlook as you do then correct?
You: No. A lot is situational. Like Proverbs. There are also many different interpretations of Biblical texts... however, the deeper the understanding of the history and language of the Bible, the more unified the conclusions are. Many outlooks are based on primary or superficial analyses, which isn't wholly wrong, the gist is there, but the interpretation can change.
You: God seems to reveal a more unified conclusion to those that study.
Stranger: So you have no opinion on free will?
You: I do. I think that God controls and has pre-planned ever bit of minutia from the beginning to the end. He wouldn't be omnipotent and omniscient if He didn't.
You: I don't believe in free will.
Stranger: So i guess by your belief system, you think that the majority of people burn in hell for eternity and can't even do anything to help it?
You: Romans 9 blatantly says it.
Stranger: the bible says many things
Stranger: including things that contradict
Stranger: Just because Romans 9 says it, does not necissarilly mean anything.
Stranger: what about when the bible condones slavery?
You: 2Thess says it
You: John says it
You: Paul says it all the time
You: Jesus says it
You: the entire OT says it
Stranger: But what about slavery?
You: Slavery isn't a theological problem. That was a cultural issue that the Bible directs the people of the time on how to handle it.
Stranger: I beleive it states something like if a slave owner strikes a slave and the slave does not perrish that day, nothing should be done.
Stranger: if the slave were to die tomorrow, that's okay.
You: Yeah, it does. Again, that was addressing a cultural issue. Morality isn't standard and changes from society to society.
You: That isn't a theoligical issue.
You: Whether God predestines or not is theological.
Stranger: What about a person who dies, who has never heard the name Jesus before?
You: The Bible says that God will be revealed to them if they are elect.
You: Chosen for salvation.
You: Eph 1:4-5
Stranger: So i guess nobody should give a fuck about anything then.
You: God gives us our desires. We care about what He wants us to care about to further His purpose.
You: No caring about something wouldn't be a choice.
Stranger: sounds a little bit off the wall
You: It's what the Bible teaches.
Stranger: How do you know what the bible teaches is what god teaches?
You: I can't know that for sure. The only way I trust the Bible is through faith... but, if you can't trust the Bible and don't believe it, why bother to be a Christian? If you just want to believe in a supreme being then that's deism.
Stranger: I disagree, the bible was not written by god. So when you have faith in the bible, what is it you have faith on exactly?
Stranger: That a bunch of guys didn't completely screw it up?
You: No, my faith is that God controlled what was placed in the Bible for our instruction. Remember, I believe everything was controlled by God, and man couldn't do anything that counteracted God's plan because God had already planned for it that way.
Stranger: So who is to say God didn't make the whole thing up then?
Stranger: He could have, right?
Stranger: Just for amusement.
You: That's possible.
You: Won't deny that.
You: It's out of character for the Christian God; however, if the Christian God is really some other "God", then yeah, we've been fooled.
Stranger: Out of character by what's in the bible...
You: That's my point.
Stranger: that does not make it out of character necessarilly
You: Yep. That's what I was saying.
Stranger: So as far as you know, it's all a bunch of bullshit then right?
You: I don't know anything. If I knew, then I wouldn't have to believe. I have faith in the God of the Bible, and I live my life as if it's true, but since I'm not omniscient, I can't claim to "know".
You: My faith is no, it's not all BS.
Stranger: I can't say that you have made a whole lot of sence during this convo
You: What are you confused about?
Stranger: Your faith seems to be completely blind.
You: Faith is completely blind
You: That's why it's faith.
Stranger: there's a difference between faith and blind faith.
You: Knowledge null and voids faith.
You: Blind faith is not knowing why you believe in something, as you said to me. Faith is having a reason, which I have, which I explained.
Stranger: I have reasons based on historical fact...
Stranger: Because you chose to disagree with historical fact does not make it blind.
You: Your reason is that Christ was a real man. His resurrection isn't historical fact.
Stranger: His resurrection is more of an historical fact than anything else of that time
You: The only historical reference of the resurrection is the Bible, which you more or less think isn't wholly factual. So yes, your faith is blind.
Stranger: The bible is not the only reference.
Stranger: There were writers (some very well known) who claimed they witnessed the resurrection.
Stranger: This has nothing to do with the bible.
You: And they were Christians and influenced by the Bible. There are no written documents that come within 4 decades of the resurrection that make a claim of a historical resurrection.
Stranger: That's incorrect. We have some as early as 30 years later.
Stranger: 62 A.D I believe.
You: Sorry... 10 years off.
You: Actually 5ish
You: Christ was born ~3BC
You: So, 35 years after the resurrection, after Christianity had gain a foothold, you give credence to a claim like this?
You: Historically speaking that is
Stranger: why not?
You: Why not?
Stranger: The bible didn't say anything about it for a few hundred years.
You: There are multitude of reason.
You: Someone wanting to seem pious.
You: Someone wanting to claim that they saw this God-man resurrect.
You: Someone just indulging in the local legends.
Stranger: People wrote it down before the New Testiment even existed.
Stranger: How long did it take for the New Testiment to get around to it?
You: About the same time, actually.
Stranger: couple hundred years at least...
Stranger: The New testiment didn't circulate until well after this.
Stranger: Generations later
You: Some of Paul's letters were written a decade before.
You: We're talking written not circulated.
Stranger: We have written letter from Paul during this time?