Omg... fuck Trump yall.
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04-09-2017, 12:07 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(04-09-2017 12:00 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(31-08-2017 11:23 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  I didn't bother with tripe that was "Mein Kampf" but did Hitler really wrote what he was going to do or just presented sweeping vision and general ideas? At the very least there was no plans for Shoah to happen when he wrote his book, even if Hitler always wanted Final Solution looking way it looked.

Also keep in mind that whatever politician say/write and then do are different things. Keep in mind original NSDAP programe which wasn't even supposed to be mentioned in public cause party actions didn't reflect it [Werner-Muller "Contesting Democracy"].



Politician doing what he said he will do is beast so rare that surprise is warranted I think.

You're talking about what politicians say they are going to do on the campaign trail.

Hitlers book was just him talking about himself and what he thinks, I haven't read it all and I was pretty young when I did look into it, but yea he laid out a road map of exactly what he wanted to do. It wasn't a campaign promise it was just kinda fucking obvious if you bothered to read his writing. And that's exactly what Trump did as well, he was just making a commercial that really showcased how he views the world, how he see's himself as king. That's not the same thing as a campaign promise. Politicians always lie to get elected this is true, you need to look at what they said about themselves when they weren't actively thinking about election to get the measure of how they view the world. It's not that hard if you do some digging. And a persons general outlook and how they view themselves will give you a clear road map of what they are liable to do if they gain the ability to act on those foundational "beliefs"

The thing is that "Mein Kampf" wasn't written without politics in mind. It's hardly reliable source - see Kershaw biography of Hitler.

As for writing what exactly he do, well Hitler rule was full of improvisation and Final Solution wasn't planned from time Hitler wrote his babble.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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04-09-2017, 12:39 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(04-09-2017 12:07 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(04-09-2017 12:00 PM)JesseB Wrote:  You're talking about what politicians say they are going to do on the campaign trail.

Hitlers book was just him talking about himself and what he thinks, I haven't read it all and I was pretty young when I did look into it, but yea he laid out a road map of exactly what he wanted to do. It wasn't a campaign promise it was just kinda fucking obvious if you bothered to read his writing. And that's exactly what Trump did as well, he was just making a commercial that really showcased how he views the world, how he see's himself as king. That's not the same thing as a campaign promise. Politicians always lie to get elected this is true, you need to look at what they said about themselves when they weren't actively thinking about election to get the measure of how they view the world. It's not that hard if you do some digging. And a persons general outlook and how they view themselves will give you a clear road map of what they are liable to do if they gain the ability to act on those foundational "beliefs"

The thing is that "Mein Kampf" wasn't written without politics in mind. It's hardly reliable source - see Kershaw biography of Hitler.

As for writing what exactly he do, well Hitler rule was full of improvisation and Final Solution wasn't planned from time Hitler wrote his babble.

That's true, but I think you are missing my point.

Humans have ideas, thoughts and values and barring a hell of a lot of work they will generally act within the confines of how they view the world. In order for Hitler to have reformed he would have needed first a reason to be (which near the end of the war he did kinda have a reason to be, however since he also knew his crimes would result in death he chose to kill himself rather than reform), and it would also require a lot of introspection (as stated above Hitler didn't have time to reflect too much thanks to a bullet in his brain)

That said it also requires one more thing, the individual to choose to think about this stuff. Most religious folks when faced with the option of delusion or reality will choose delusion even when there's damn good reasons for them to give it up. So you can't just say bully a racist with a club and make them stop being racist, they have to choose it. It can happen but it's hard and frankly you can do everything perfectly on your end to help them that doesn't mean in the end they'll choose to reconsider or even consider what they think why and how they might be wrong. That's just one of many potential examples.

The point is Trump is acting completely within his nature as a person, which is easily understood by listening to the asinine shit he's said and looking at his past actions. This is a practice we all engage in to some extent when choosing who we'll keep as friends ect, but for some reason when looking at politicians people become painfully stupid and only listen to campaign lies despite knowing that 100% of what a politician says on a campaign is always a lie. For the record I'm currently sick of politicians and think they all should be given a one way shuttle trip to a visit to the sun. My real position is a bit more nuanced but my emotions are showing strong right now.

TL: DR Humans are generally painfully easy to predict if you bother to actually look.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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04-09-2017, 01:39 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
As to TL: DR. I don't agree - people would be easy to predict if you could be sure that what they say is what they think and that their actions weren't result of external actors pressuring our man. As things stands you can treat words as predictors of actions only is small way I think, like when someone is saying what he will eat at dinner time.

On a wider point I agree that you can expect idiot to act like one, bigot too, but people aren't so one dimensional.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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