Omg... fuck Trump yall.
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29-08-2017, 10:16 AM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 09:55 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  ...
I hate to be a grammar Nazi (well, not really, it's kind of fun), but the plural of Nazi is Nazis. "Nazi's" is a possessive, as in "the Nazi's brown shirt." Carry on.

People who form plurals with apostrophes are among my pet peeves.

Just use this as short-hand...

[Image: 1e9.png]

(29-08-2017 09:57 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  ...
crushing the Republicans in the mid-terms,
...

I'm more and more persuaded that this ain't going to happen.

The Dems are offering nothing except "We're not him" and the DNC court case has shown that they don't care.

In the two party system as it is now, I'm beginning to think that the only hope is infiltration.

Consider

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29-08-2017, 10:21 AM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 10:16 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(29-08-2017 09:57 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  ...
crushing the Republicans in the mid-terms,
...

I'm more and more persuaded that this ain't going to happen.

The Dems are offering nothing except "We're not him" and the DNC court case has shown that they don't care.

In the two party system as it is now, I'm beginning to think that the only hope is infiltration.

Consider

Not to mention this: if the Republicans get fed up with Trump and oust him (one way or another), I might even consider voting for a few of them, even though I'm a lifelong Democrat. Trump's in his own category -- Democrats and Republicans can both hate him.
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29-08-2017, 11:03 AM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2017 11:09 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 10:16 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(29-08-2017 09:55 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  ...
I hate to be a grammar Nazi (well, not really, it's kind of fun), but the plural of Nazi is Nazis. "Nazi's" is a possessive, as in "the Nazi's brown shirt." Carry on.

People who form plurals with apostrophes are among my pet peeves.

Just use this as short-hand...

[Image: 1e9.png]

(29-08-2017 09:57 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  ...
crushing the Republicans in the mid-terms,
...

I'm more and more persuaded that this ain't going to happen.

The Dems are offering nothing except "We're not him" and the DNC court case has shown that they don't care.

In the two party system as it is now, I'm beginning to think that the only hope is infiltration.

Consider

Ya think.
I believe we've watched the biggest blind side in history and the left still is in denial.
They will trot out the same old tired promises.
And watching this endless "shaming" of Trump for doing exactly what his base expects convinces me more and more that they haven't faced reality.
It's like the most annoying of terms. "Speaking Truth to Power"
As if power doesn't know the truth.

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29-08-2017, 11:04 AM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2017 11:13 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 07:04 AM)reeveseb Wrote:  
(29-08-2017 04:18 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Just add this to Trump's list of impeachable offenses. His supporters may not see it, but many other people who understand the law do.

How is issuing a pardon considered to fall under "high crimes and misdemeanors?" I don't like the guy very much either, but I'm trying to understand how the POTUS exercising the powers granted to the office in Article II Section 2 of the Constitution is considered a crime. The only restrictions are the pardons cannot impact an impeachment process, and the crimes must be against the US (not state or civil). Seems like the pardon meets those requirements. So how does this reach the level of an impeachable offense?

I think the pardon is a violation of the President's oath to uphold the Constitution. Judges ruled that Arpaio violated people's constitutional rights. Trump pardoned him for doing that, thus violating his own oath

https://www.thenation.com/article/presid...oe-arpaio/

If the government can impeach Bill Clinton for lying under oath about an affair, they can certainly impeach Donald Trump for violating his oath of office. (Whether they can successfully remove him from office is a different thing entirely.)
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29-08-2017, 11:04 AM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2017 11:10 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 08:44 AM)reeveseb Wrote:  Wasn't that precedent set back when Ford pardoned Nixon? Arguably, Nixon committed far greater crimes than Arpaio was convicted for and faced no criminal charges.

I think you didnt get the point me or Morondog were trying to make, so i will explain with the example of Ford /Nixon what the difference is:

It is not about the magnitude of a crime or whatever. Its about the motivation of the pardon. The instrument of pardon is to show (internally as well as to external observers, that a society is still able to exert clemency, that we are humans and although we create rules by which everybody has to live and which we intend to enforce, we still have compassion, even with convicted criminals.
It is not about making statements of the pardoner about the sentence. The sentence has been spoken by a court and is valid.period.

So a typical scenario would be pardoning some kind of murderer who is probably an inmate for decades already and has developed a terminal illness. You pardon him, and show that you have compasison, even with murderers. It does not mean you dont tink he is a murderer. He is a convicted murderer, but we have compassion for murderes. Thats who we are! ..and thats the message that a pardon should send

Now, Ford pardoned Nixon, but what was his motivation and message. Well his official statement was:
Quote:Richard Nixon became the thirty-seventh President of the United States on January 20, 1969 and was reelected in 1972 for a second term by the electors of forty-nine of the fifty states. His term in office continued until his resignation on August 9, 1974.

Pursuant to resolutions of the House of Representatives, its Committee on the Judiciary conducted an inquiry and investigation on the impeachment of the President extending over more than eight months. The hearings of the Committee and its deliberations, which received wide national publicity over television, radio, and in printed media, resulted in votes adverse to Richard Nixon on recommended Articles of Impeachment.

As a result of certain acts or omissions occurring before his resignation from the Office of President, Richard Nixon has become liable to possible indictment and trial for offenses against the United States. Whether or not he shall be so prosecuted depends on findings of the appropriate grand jury and on the discretion of the authorized prosecutor. Should an indictment ensue, the accused shall then be entitled to a fair trial by an impartial jury, as guaranteed to every individual by the Constitution.

It is believed that a trial of Richard Nixon, if it became necessary, could not fairly begin until a year or more has elapsed. In the meantime, the tranquility to which this nation has been restored by the events of recent weeks could be irreparably lost by the prospects of bringing to trial a former President of the United States. The prospects of such trial will cause prolonged and divisive debate over the propriety of exposing to further punishment and degradation a man who has already paid the unprecedented penalty of relinquishing the highest elective office of the United States.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this eighth day of September, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and seventy-four, and of the Independence of the United States of America the one hundred and ninety-ninth.

Ford clearly keeps his hands off making any statments about Nixon being or being not guilty of any crimes. He clearly points towards the constitution and the judiciary (fair trial). He clearly says that he has two (other) reasons to pardon Nixon:

#1 possible damage to the country if a long enduring prosecution and trial starts
#2 Nixon already being humiliated having to step down from the highest office and possible further degradation
Nothing that shows Ford trying to overstep his powers or at least widening his borders of freedom in a selfish way. Nothing that Ford says or intends is about himself.


Now, what was Trumps argument?
#1 Arpaio is a "partiot"
#2 "He kept Arizona safe"

Two clearly apologetic terms. Nothing about the better of the country, nothing about clemency. Nothing abou ta fair trial. Quite to the contrary, by indicating Arpaio was somehow *right* he is clearly trying to *poke* the jurisdiction who spoke the verdict which is 100% the playing field of judges and 0% of Trump.
Trump abused a tool that is supposed to be a figurehead of a modern and humble society, a tool that is supposed to *help* those who already are lost (by their own wron decisions in life) and who cant be helped anymore, for his own cause, in his usual 100% selfish way. Once again, its not about Arpaio and his age and end of career, its not about the clemency of the USA, no its about DJT showing off again how the world is turning aroud him.

Edit: Trump did nothing illegal here, just to be clear. No action is to follow imho. Yet, again, he has showed, in very clear detail, what a despicable creature he is.
Question to you, or anyone else who is still defending him in any way: Are you ok with such a person leading your country, representing you? What are your limits? What is morally permissible in your opinion and what not? What are you willing to endure or apologize, and for what goal? Which ends justify what means? What are the ends in Trumps own world anyway?

The USA as a whole is being ridiculed and exploited, by her own top leader, and ca. 30% are still sitting there and cheering, which makes them idiots TWICE.

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29-08-2017, 11:11 AM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 08:03 AM)Rockblossom Wrote:  
(29-08-2017 08:00 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I stand corrected.

Commuted sentence, not pardon - either one overrules the conviction.

No. A commuted sentence does not overrule a conviction. The conviction stands, with just part of the sentence commuted. It's not unlike when a review board looks at someone serving a prison sentence, and decides to commute part of the sentence and give them early release.

Any way you look at it, it's a " get out of jail, free," card.....


..
And I still find it odd that we didn't see the outrage.....

[\sarcasm]



....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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29-08-2017, 11:19 AM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2017 11:32 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 09:57 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  I agree with Reeveseb. The disagreements are all reasons to not like Trump's pardon- signalling to allies, throwing red meat to base, etc.- but the proper check on this must IMHO come from the American people in the form of pulling support, crushing the Republicans in the mid-terms, peaceful protest, and remembering how shady it was four years from now in November. "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" is very vague but at least implies illegality and we're better off keeping the definition tight rather than loose. Impeachment because "we didn't like that legal thing you did" is a bad idea.

I remember people saying after Trump was elected "You must try and understand why these people voted for Trump. I seriously doubt that around 50% of the electorate are racist".
A voice in me said "Yeah I doubt it as well. I'd say it's a higher percentage".
I don't so far see any real signs that even the most outrageous things that Trump says and does significantly changes his actions or his support from the people who truly back him.
And the Russia thing and all this "russia shaming" isn't going to make a bit of difference.
A LOT of people want this country to resemble Russia more than the vision that the left offers.
I'm telling you a lot of groundwork has gone into the "Trump revolution".
Years of right wing radio and partisan TV and demonetization of the left.
They are going to be coached to "stay the course" and I will be surprised if Trump loses a second term. No matter what he does or doesn't do.
You start hearing terms like "make America great again" and "take back America" and it speaks to the whole package. It's been packaged, advertised and sold.
The beat goes on. While the left sits on it's hands.
Promises have been made. In churches and town halls all over the country for a long time lining things up for this.
It ain't going away without a big big shit storm.
It's win at any cost and they will burn the cathedral down.

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29-08-2017, 11:24 AM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 09:57 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  I agree with Reeveseb. The disagreements are all reasons to not like Trump's pardon- signalling to allies, throwing red meat to base, etc.- but the proper check on this must IMHO come from the American people in the form of pulling support, crushing the Republicans in the mid-terms, peaceful protest, and remembering how shady it was four years from now in November. "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" is very vague but at least implies illegality and we're better off keeping the definition tight rather than loose. Impeachment because "we didn't like that legal thing you did" is a bad idea.

Like, Like, Like, Like. Thank you for putting into words what I was trying to say.

It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.
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29-08-2017, 11:46 AM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 11:04 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Now, what was Trumps argument?
#1 Arpaio is a "partiot"
#2 "He kept Arizona safe"

Two clearly apologetic terms. Nothing about the better of the country, nothing about clemency. Nothing abou ta fair trial. Quite to the contrary, by indicating Arpaio was somehow *right* he is clearly trying to *poke* the jurisdiction who spoke the verdict which is 100% the playing field of judges and 0% of Trump.
Trump abused a tool that is supposed to be a figurehead of a modern and humble society, a tool that is supposed to *help* those who already are lost (by their own wron decisions in life) and who cant be helped anymore, for his own cause, in his usual 100% selfish way. Once again, its not about Arpaio and his age and end of career, its not about the clemency of the USA, no its about DJT showing off again how the world is turning aroud him.

Edit: Trump did nothing illegal here, just to be clear. No action is to follow imho. Yet, again, he has showed, in very clear detail, what a despicable creature he is.
Question to you, or anyone else who is still defending him in any way: Are you ok with such a person leading your country, representing you? What are your limits? What is morally permissible in your opinion and what not? What are you willing to endure or apologize, and for what goal? Which ends justify what means? What are the ends in Trumps own world anyway?

The USA as a whole is being ridiculed and exploited, by her own top leader, and ca. 30% are still sitting there and cheering, which makes them idiots TWICE.

I agree with just about everything you've said, except for the part where you implied that I was defending him. I'm defending the process and the Constitutional authority granted to the head of the executive branch. Let me concede the point that Trump did this for purposes nefarious and selfish (though the burden of proof would rest on those who would put him on trial for HC&M, which I believe is an unbelievably tall order). In my opinion, the calls to add this to a list of impeachable offenses, or that this was somehow illegal are far fetched at best.

I hope you, nor moondog, nor anyone else has been under the impression that I have been defending DJT. There's a difference. I'm defending Obama's use of pardons and commutations, just as I'm defending this one so far by DJT. I feel this is a necessary part of the process. If someone uses it in an undesirable way, unless it's obviously a case of HC&M, the political process should be utilized to oust him/her from office (like Jerry said). We can't just go all pitchforks and torches every time something happens that we don't like, especially if it was done lawfully.

It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.
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29-08-2017, 11:49 AM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 01:05 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(28-08-2017 11:36 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  He granted a full pardon to Arpaio...

What the fuck..?

IMO he's doing two things (I stole this from young turks on youtube)
  • He's sending a message to all his crowd not to cooperate with the Russian investigation, he'll just pardon them if they e.g. don't hand over evidence.
  • He's testing the system to see if he can get away with pardoning people for transparently bullshit reasons.

You left out the part where Trump's an asshole and he likes to surround himself with assholes so he feels validated.

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