Omg... fuck Trump yall.
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29-08-2017, 12:01 PM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2017 12:23 PM by reeveseb.)
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 11:04 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  I think the pardon is a violation of the President's oath to uphold the Constitution. Judges ruled that Arpaio violated people's constitutional rights. Trump pardoned him for doing that, thus violating his own oath

https://www.thenation.com/article/presid...oe-arpaio/

If the government can impeach Bill Clinton for lying under oath about an affair, they can certainly impeach Donald Trump for violating his oath of office. (Whether they can successfully remove him from office is a different thing entirely.)

I see what you're saying and in a round about way, that might be an avenue, but again, isn't that very subjective? Is there anything concrete you can point to and say that DJT violated his oath of office by issuing this pardon, or is it simply again, subjective judgement? From my understanding, Arpaio was found guilty of criminal contempt when he disobeyed what he believed to be an unlawful order from a judge. He was adjudicated to be wrong (and lord have mercy, I'm not defending him, just stating what I believe to be facts from what I've read) and found guilty by a federal judge. By pardoning him, Trump is essentially saying that he too agrees with Arpaio and does not agree with the judge who found him guilty. I understand why people would be upset, but my argument isn't to say that people shouldn't be upset. My argument is that what he did isn't illegal, therefore is not impeachable. I think Arpaio went a little too far with some of his tent city jails, but on the other side, people who are in jail aren't supposed to be there to have a vacation. They're there to serve a sentence. The people voted him in as sheriff repeatedly knowing full well how he was running his jail system.

At the end of the day, trying to impeach a POTUS for a pardon and being successful is HIGHLY unlikely due to the broad powers afforded him by the constitution. The burden of proof is much too high. Much higher than a subjective belief that he violated his oath of office.

It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.
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29-08-2017, 12:02 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 11:04 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Edit: Trump did nothing illegal here, just to be clear. No action is to follow imho. Yet, again, he has showed, in very clear detail, what a despicable creature he is.
Question to you, or anyone else who is still defending him in any way: Are you ok with such a person leading your country, representing you? What are your limits? What is morally permissible in your opinion and what not? What are you willing to endure or apologize, and for what goal? Which ends justify what means? What are the ends in Trumps own world anyway?

The USA as a whole is being ridiculed and exploited, by her own top leader, and ca. 30% are still sitting there and cheering, which makes them idiots TWICE.

For my part, I just want to be clear that I'm not defending him and I'm not defending the pardon I'm defending the position that the pardon shouldn't be grounds for impeach and removal. It should be for the American people to say hey, this LEGAL pardon isn't what pardons are supposed to be used for, they're supposed to be used for people in jail for false charges or political crimes or whatever and clearly he is using it to support a crony. I just think a too-early impeachment damages the presidency, not the current mammal in office. An impeachment, great, let's keep adding to the precedent that our political leaders choose the president, not the people of America. And let's make the guy a martyr while we're at it. We're already becoming a banana republic, let's at least do it slower.

And I think the Clinton impeachment was stupid and damaging to the office, the justification for a Trump impeachment shouldn't be "hey, your side did this stupid damaging thing to our guy, let's do it to yours!"
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29-08-2017, 12:03 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
I feel like I'm in a tag-team match. These tights are so itchy!
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29-08-2017, 12:05 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 11:46 AM)reeveseb Wrote:  I agree with just about everything you've said, except for the part where you implied that I was defending him.
I apologize then for having the impression you are trying to defend him. Blush

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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29-08-2017, 12:17 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 12:05 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(29-08-2017 11:46 AM)reeveseb Wrote:  I agree with just about everything you've said, except for the part where you implied that I was defending him.
I apologize then for having the impression you are trying to defend him. Blush

No worries. Thank you for listening before you went all Brian37 on me!!! And just so we're clear, I think he is really a sorry excuse for a leader. We should be able to do much better. This last election, to me, was the epitome of worse of two evils. Rock and a hard place? No-win situation? Hammer and Anvil? Seems like they all would apply!

It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.
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29-08-2017, 12:32 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 12:17 PM)reeveseb Wrote:  
(29-08-2017 12:05 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  I apologize then for having the impression you are trying to defend him. Blush

No worries. Thank you for listening before you went all Brian37 on me!!! And just so we're clear, I think he is really a sorry excuse for a leader. We should be able to do much better. This last election, to me, was the epitome of worse of two evils. Rock and a hard place? No-win situation? Hammer and Anvil? Seems like they all would apply!

Exactly what is wrong with going after, "a sorry excuse for a leader"......<Your words not mine. I agree he is, and there is no excuse morally or logically for anyone putting up with his dangerous political vilification and scapegoating.

There are no 'bu bu buts" for 45. But nothing, he is dangerous period. So much so that 50 former REPUBLICAN intel agents signed a letter last year warning America of what he could lead to.

Yea excuse me for not wanting White Nationalist fascists to gain more power. Excuse me for saying "No slavery is not a culture". Excuse me for saying that Mexicans don't deserve to be called rapists. Excuse me for saying calls for bans on an entire religion is bat shit insane on top of going against the First Amendment. Excuse me for saying billionaires wont end up eating cat food if they pay more.

So if you are responding to someone who doesn't support 45, then great I agree, nobody should. But lets also not forget how this got set up either. A GOP who long before 45 used dog whistle code on top of Farts News and Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter and Alex Jones.

The only thing 45 did was unmask what the GOP was doing.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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29-08-2017, 12:34 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 12:02 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  And I think the Clinton impeachment was stupid and damaging to the office, the justification for a Trump impeachment shouldn't be "hey, your side did this stupid damaging thing to our guy, let's do it to yours!"

For the record, I don't think Clinton should have been impeached either. However, not only was I was pointing out republican hypocrisy, I was trying to say that the much more important principle of the separation of powers is at stake in this instance. Trump is trying to overrule the judicial branch of our government by means of a pardon, by his own admission, and I don't think that should be allowed to stand uncontested.
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29-08-2017, 12:37 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 11:11 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(29-08-2017 08:03 AM)Rockblossom Wrote:  No. A commuted sentence does not overrule a conviction. The conviction stands, with just part of the sentence commuted. It's not unlike when a review board looks at someone serving a prison sentence, and decides to commute part of the sentence and give them early release.

Any way you look at it, it's a " get out of jail, free," card.....


..
And I still find it odd that we didn't see the outrage.....

[\sarcasm]



....

I assume you're talking about Manning? If I recall Manning did actual prison time -- Had Obama pardoned Manning before sentencing to circumvent the court system...then you'd have a case and I'd be completely outraged. I wasn't thrilled with the pardon, but he did it just before leaving office like most presidents do.

The difference is this guy wasn't even sentenced yet. The difference is that this guy willfully ignored the law when told to stop harassing people. His charge was contempt of court. The difference is that the president is still in his first year of office.

What the president has said now is that he can decide who should go free. He didn't even follow the WH procedure for this. So the actual law doesn't matter anymore.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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29-08-2017, 12:44 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 12:01 PM)reeveseb Wrote:  By pardoning him, Trump is essentially saying that he too agrees with Arpaio and does not agree with the judge who found him guilty. I understand why people would be upset, but my argument isn't to say that people shouldn't be upset. My argument is that what he did isn't illegal, therefore is not impeachable.

Trump doesn't get to overrule a judge, even though he is President. That is the whole point. We have the separation of powers in our government which Trump is abusing, since he admitted he pardoned Arpaio exactly because he disagreed with the judge. Had he pardoned Arpaio for leniency, it would have been a different thing, but again Trump's mouth and ignorance of the law are getting him into trouble. That's how this became a potential legal issue.

Trump should listen to his legal advisors and follow standard procedures in such cases. They are there to protect him. But he behaves like a bull in a china shop instead. He is an amateur who won't admit it, so no one can save him from himself.
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29-08-2017, 12:44 PM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2017 12:49 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 01:05 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(28-08-2017 11:36 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  He granted a full pardon to Arpaio...

What the fuck..?

IMO he's doing two things (I stole this from young turks on youtube)
  • He's sending a message to all his crowd not to cooperate with the Russian investigation, he'll just pardon them if they e.g. don't hand over evidence.
  • He's testing the system to see if he can get away with pardoning people for transparently bullshit reasons.

However many of them have professional ties, (bar memberships), other certifications and accepting a pardon means you
a. admit you're guilty, (some felonious),
b. lose the right to invoke the 5th Amendment ..
so it's complicated, potentially.

I think technically, Arpaio can still be sentenced, just won't have to serve it. He filed for a dismissal, but it's not granted that I heard, yet. He's cost the state $200 million dollars with his antics.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/28/politics/s...index.html
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/4/...ng-himself

It's appalling that the person charged with seeing to it the laws are carried out has no respect for the law.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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