Omg... fuck Trump yall.
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29-08-2017, 12:47 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 12:34 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(29-08-2017 12:02 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  And I think the Clinton impeachment was stupid and damaging to the office, the justification for a Trump impeachment shouldn't be "hey, your side did this stupid damaging thing to our guy, let's do it to yours!"

For the record, I don't think Clinton should have been impeached either. However, not only was I was pointing out republican hypocrisy, I was trying to say that the much more important principle of the separation of powers is at stake in this instance. Trump is trying to overrule the judicial branch of our government by means of a pardon, by his own admission, and I don't think that should be allowed to stand uncontested.

I am sick of people vilifying Hillary. I wanted Bernie to win, but Hillary was vilified long before she held any public office, back even when she was a governor's wife not to mention first lady.

45 pardons a known racist, but fires Comey who served under BOTH parties and said himself basically, while what she did wasn't wise, it didn't break any laws. The GOP wasted tons of tax payers dollars going after her. Now if anyone thinks 45 and Hillary are equal, I say BULLSHIT.

Nobody is asking anyone to like her, but she nor any candidate for that matter, of either party ever ran a vile campaign with repeated vilification of not one person, or one group, but multiple groups. 45 burned his way through his own party's primaries, couldn't even leave the military service of McCain alone. Attacked sitting judges with no record of impropriety. Shit on 17 agencies too.

So no Hillary cannot be equated to 45 even if you don't like her. Not even Mitt Romney, John McCain, Bush Jr, Bush Sr nor Reagan ran a vile and disturbing and dangerous campaign like 45. Hillary if she had won, like her or not, still would not have caused all this damage like 45 has.

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29-08-2017, 12:49 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 12:34 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  However, not only was I was pointing out republican hypocrisy, I was trying to say that the much more important principle of the separation of powers is at stake in this instance. Trump is trying to overrule the judicial branch of our government by means of a pardon, by his own admission, and I don't think that should be allowed to stand uncontested.

Trump is trying to overrule the J branch, agreed. Would you be okay with some kind of Congressional censure or warning, something not specifically a constitutional power but a firm warning? (Won't happen, we agree on Republican hypocracy) My feeling is just that impeachment is pulling out your biggest gun and it doesn't rise to this crime (pardoning a crony for base political reasons- unsavory but not nuclear).
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29-08-2017, 12:50 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 12:47 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(29-08-2017 12:34 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  For the record, I don't think Clinton should have been impeached either. However, not only was I was pointing out republican hypocrisy, I was trying to say that the much more important principle of the separation of powers is at stake in this instance. Trump is trying to overrule the judicial branch of our government by means of a pardon, by his own admission, and I don't think that should be allowed to stand uncontested.

I am sick of people vilifying Hillary. I wanted Bernie to win, but Hillary was vilified long before she held any public office, back even when she was a governor's wife not to mention first lady.

45 pardons a known racist, but fires Comey who served under BOTH parties and said himself basically, while what she did wasn't wise, it didn't break any laws. The GOP wasted tons of tax payers dollars going after her. Now if anyone thinks 45 and Hillary are equal, I say BULLSHIT.

Nobody is asking anyone to like her, but she nor any candidate for that matter, of either party ever ran a vile campaign with repeated vilification of not one person, or one group, but multiple groups. 45 burned his way through his own party's primaries, couldn't even leave the military service of McCain alone. Attacked sitting judges with no record of impropriety. Shit on 17 agencies too.

So no Hillary cannot be equated to 45 even if you don't like her. Not even Mitt Romney, John McCain, Bush Jr, Bush Sr nor Reagan ran a vile and disturbing and dangerous campaign like 45. Hillary if she had won, like her or not, still would not have caused all this damage like 45 has.

Brian we were talking about Bill Clinton.
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29-08-2017, 12:50 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 12:44 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Trump doesn't get to overrule a judge, even though he is President. That is the whole point. We have the separation of powers in our government which Trump is abusing, since he admitted he pardoned Arpaio exactly because he disagreed with the judge. Had he pardoned Arpaio for leniency, it would have been a different thing, but again Trump's mouth and ignorance of the law are getting him into trouble. That's how this became a potential legal issue.

Trump should listen to his legal advisors and follow standard procedures in such cases. They are there to protect him. But he behaves like a bull in a china shop instead. He is an amateur who won't admit it, so no one can save him from himself.

That depends on those separations of power persisting.
When People talked about tearing down the system I suspect that they weren't kidding.
He's either an amateur or just not worried.
Time will tell.

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29-08-2017, 12:56 PM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2017 01:11 PM by reeveseb.)
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 12:32 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(29-08-2017 12:17 PM)reeveseb Wrote:  No worries. Thank you for listening before you went all Brian37 on me!!! And just so we're clear, I think he is really a sorry excuse for a leader. We should be able to do much better. This last election, to me, was the epitome of worse of two evils. Rock and a hard place? No-win situation? Hammer and Anvil? Seems like they all would apply!

Exactly what is wrong with going after, "a sorry excuse for a leader"......<Your words not mine. I agree he is, and there is no excuse morally or logically for anyone putting up with his dangerous political vilification and scapegoating.

There are no 'bu bu buts" for 45. But nothing, he is dangerous period. So much so that 50 former REPUBLICAN intel agents signed a letter last year warning America of what he could lead to.

Yea excuse me for not wanting White Nationalist fascists to gain more power. Excuse me for saying "No slavery is not a culture". Excuse me for saying that Mexicans don't deserve to be called rapists. Excuse me for saying calls for bans on an entire religion is bat shit insane on top of going against the First Amendment. Excuse me for saying billionaires wont end up eating cat food if they pay more.

So if you are responding to someone who doesn't support 45, then great I agree, nobody should. But lets also not forget how this got set up either. A GOP who long before 45 used dog whistle code on top of Farts News and Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter and Alex Jones.

The only thing 45 did was unmask what the GOP was doing.

See...that's what I was talking about. So very defensive and quick to anger. I was glad Deesse didn't do that to me like you do to Trump. Just an observation Brian. Many of the threads I read through, it's like you copy and paste your hatred for "45" just to make sure everyone knows you hate him. I simply was thanking Deesse for not doing that to me before she understood what I was saying. And your rants were the best example I could come up with here on this forum. At the end of the day, you have a very strong opinion regarding "45" and I support your right to go after him (ideologically through words) as hard as you like. But you have to also understand that some people will get tired of seeing the same hate, anger and venom on a regular basis. I haven't even been here that long and I hold my breath every time your name pops up because more likely than not, it's another rant against "45." Nothing personal, you just helped me make a point in this case. That's all.

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29-08-2017, 01:11 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 12:49 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  Trump is trying to overrule the J branch, agreed. Would you be okay with some kind of Congressional censure or warning, something not specifically a constitutional power but a firm warning? (Won't happen, we agree on Republican hypocracy) My feeling is just that impeachment is pulling out your biggest gun and it doesn't rise to this crime (pardoning a crony for base political reasons- unsavory but not nuclear).

I am glad to see Republicans as well as Democrats speak out against Trump's many mistakes, including this one, but I doubt very much that he will be impeached for any one of those many mistakes. However, if Congress took them all in combination he might be impeached at some later date. That would likely only happen, if at all, after Mueller's investigation is completed and presented to Congress, assuming Mueller finds a serious pattern of potentially illegal activity, lying, and obstruction of justice.

Again, I think if anything brings this President down, it will be the accumulation of his own amateurish legal mistakes. He has been ignoring too many norms and laws.
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29-08-2017, 01:17 PM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2017 01:25 PM by BikerDude.)
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 01:11 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(29-08-2017 12:49 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  Trump is trying to overrule the J branch, agreed. Would you be okay with some kind of Congressional censure or warning, something not specifically a constitutional power but a firm warning? (Won't happen, we agree on Republican hypocracy) My feeling is just that impeachment is pulling out your biggest gun and it doesn't rise to this crime (pardoning a crony for base political reasons- unsavory but not nuclear).

I am glad to see Republicans as well as Democrats speak out against Trump's many mistakes, including this one, but I doubt very much that he will be impeached for any one of those many mistakes. However, if Congress took them all in combination he might be impeached at some later date. That would likely only happen, if at all, after Mueller's investigation is completed and presented to Congress, assuming Mueller finds a serious pattern of potentially illegal activity, lying, and obstruction of justice.

Again, I think if anything brings this President down, it will be the accumulation of his own amateurish legal mistakes. He has been ignoring too many norms and laws.

As long as the agenda is moving forward it is all rhetoric.
Unless Donald Trump murders Robert Mueller on the white house lawn he won't be impeached. And then only maybe.
It doesn't matter what he finds.
He was right when he said that he could kill somebody and still get elected.
He's not kidding. And not delusional about what is going on.
If the system takes on Donald Trump then the system will be coming down.
People weren't kidding. It's not about approval ratings any more.
It's about power and the power organizes daily. The noose is sliding slowly closed as we speak.
Something like that.

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29-08-2017, 01:22 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 12:56 PM)reeveseb Wrote:  
(29-08-2017 12:32 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Exactly what is wrong with going after, "a sorry excuse for a leader"......<Your words not mine. I agree he is, and there is no excuse morally or logically for anyone putting up with his dangerous political vilification and scapegoating.

There are no 'bu bu buts" for 45. But nothing, he is dangerous period. So much so that 50 former REPUBLICAN intel agents signed a letter last year warning America of what he could lead to.

Yea excuse me for not wanting White Nationalist fascists to gain more power. Excuse me for saying "No slavery is not a culture". Excuse me for saying that Mexicans don't deserve to be called rapists. Excuse me for saying calls for bans on an entire religion is bat shit insane on top of going against the First Amendment. Excuse me for saying billionaires wont end up eating cat food if they pay more.

So if you are responding to someone who doesn't support 45, then great I agree, nobody should. But lets also not forget how this got set up either. A GOP who long before 45 used dog whistle code on top of Farts News and Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter and Alex Jones.

The only thing 45 did was unmask what the GOP was doing.

See...that's what I was talking about. So very defensive and quick to anger. I was glad Deesse didn't do that to me like you do to Trump. Just and observation Brian. Many of the threads I read through, it's like you copy and paste your hatred for "45" just to make sure everyone knows you hate him. I simply was thanking Deesse for not doing that to me before she understood what I was saying. And your rants were the best example I could come up with here on this forum. At the end of the day, you have a very strong opinion regarding "45" and I support your right to go after him (ideologically through words) as hard as you like. But you have to also understand that some people will get tired of seeing the same hate, anger and venom on a regular basis. I haven't even been here that long and I hold my breath every time your name pops up because more likely than not, it's another rant against "45." Nothing personal, you just helped me make a point in this case. That's all.

"Like I do to Trump?" What is that supposed to mean? First off, none of us here are holding a seat of national and world power, 45 is. Secondly no, I will not apologize for going after him. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to run or say all the vile things he has day after day month after month for the past 5 years.

If you agree he is horrible, then your enemy is not me, but him. He isn't some no name loony on a street corner shouting about how God talks to him through his dog that can simply be ignored.

Don't make "bu bu bu" or "I am not him" arguments then, aim your criticism at him, not me.

YES I HATE HIM, but dont you dare call my rightful response to his venom as being venom. Condemning a dangerous man who uses carpet bombing vilification of any and all dissent is what prevents a free west from becoming WW2 Germany or North Korea. He is literally using the playbook of despots.

1. Sells hyper nationalism.
2. Sells himself as the only solution.
3. Vilifies political rivals even attacking those in his own party.
3. Purges government officials of any dissent.
4. Vilifies all outsiders.
5. Vilifies journalists.

Now no, sorry but if you value our western open system then don't coddle him. If you choose to stutter on this issue, then don't expect me to coddle you either. We already had slavery. We already had Segregation. We already had Jim Crow. We already had McCarthism, and we already fought a war against White Nationalists. Hating those things is the right thing to do and hardly "venom".

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29-08-2017, 01:23 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 12:44 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Trump doesn't get to overrule a judge, even though he is President. That is the whole point. We have the separation of powers in our government which Trump is abusing, since he admitted he pardoned Arpaio exactly because he disagreed with the judge. Had he pardoned Arpaio for leniency, it would have been a different thing, but again Trump's mouth and ignorance of the law are getting him into trouble. That's how this became a potential legal issue.

Trump should listen to his legal advisors and follow standard procedures in such cases. They are there to protect him. But he behaves like a bull in a china shop instead. He is an amateur who won't admit it, so no one can save him from himself.

But that's just it. I disagree about overruling the judge. The power of pardon (written in the constitution) gives him that right. He's not the only one who has used it. Presidents and governors overrule judges (even juries) when they issue pardons, don't they? So if Trump can't do it, then every pardon ever issued is a rebuke against the laws and the justice system that required the pardon in the first place, no?

I agree with you that he definitely should have listened to his legal advisers and followed established protocol. What he did might not be considered prim or proper by most standards. But why would anyone expect that of him given his past performance and the fact that he branded himself the "outsider?" If he would listen to the people who've been around a bit, he might save himself from a lot of this ridicule. He is bringing this all on himself. But like a few others have recently stated, I'm not sure it's going to be enough. Middle America, like it or not, is tired of the double-speak, the lies, the broken promises, etc. from so many elected officials through the years. Good or bad, many see it as refreshing to have someone who doesn't cater to the people trying to shut down things they don't like because they fear boycotts or the dreaded election defeat during the next cycle, in other words, political correctness run amok.

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29-08-2017, 01:42 PM
RE: Omg... fuck Trump yall.
(29-08-2017 01:22 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  "Like I do to Trump?" What is that supposed to mean? First off, none of us here are holding a seat of national and world power, 45 is. Secondly no, I will not apologize for going after him. Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to run or say all the vile things he has day after day month after month for the past 5 years.

If you agree he is horrible, then your enemy is not me, but him. He isn't some no name loony on a street corner shouting about how God talks to him through his dog that can simply be ignored.

Don't make "bu bu bu" or "I am not him" arguments then, aim your criticism at him, not me.

YES I HATE HIM, but dont you dare call my rightful response to his venom as being venom. Condemning a dangerous man who uses carpet bombing vilification of any and all dissent is what prevents a free west from becoming WW2 Germany or North Korea. He is literally using the playbook of despots.

1. Sells hyper nationalism.
2. Sells himself as the only solution.
3. Vilifies political rivals even attacking those in his own party.
3. Purges government officials of any dissent.
4. Vilifies all outsiders.
5. Vilifies journalists.

Now no, sorry but if you value our western open system then don't coddle him. If you choose to stutter on this issue, then don't expect me to coddle you either. We already had slavery. We already had Segregation. We already had Jim Crow. We already had McCarthism, and we already fought a war against White Nationalists. Hating those things is the right thing to do and hardly "venom".

I didn't ask you to apologize. I didn't directly disagree with anything you've said. You choose to go about it in your own way (which I've already told you I support). You call it a "rightful response," I called it "venom." That might be a little strong on my part and I'm sorry if I offended you. But in a public place like this, you can't possibly think that they way you present yourself will be seen the way you think it should by every member, do you? You are very aggressive and seemingly so set in your opinions that you aren't even willing to engage in civil discourse. Again, that's okay by me and I'm sure everyone else here will support your rights to say what you want, how you want. But that doesn't mean I (or anyone else) has to like it and agree with your methods. It's okay to have disagreements. Everyone else I've been arguing with here today has been cordial in their arguments. But then you jump in with "don't you dare" and "no I won't apologize." Who asked you to apologize? Can you see how that can be a bit off-putting? It's cool though. I 100% support your right to be just who you are. Not that you asked for it or needed it. Just wanted you to know that I support you!

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