Omnibenevolent (all loving)
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21-08-2015, 01:17 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(21-08-2015 05:25 AM)Chas Wrote:  Do you require blood for forgiveness, then?
Yes, only blood of innocent can remove sins. No water, no fabric, but only blood.
Why only blood? In order to understand answer to this question someone has to understand what "taking sins upon himself" means. Someone has to understand what happened to Jesus(Yahweh) in Gethsemane.
In order to understand this "hidden manna" someone has to believe in this first.

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21-08-2015, 01:24 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(21-08-2015 05:56 AM)Ace Wrote:  premise1. god doesn't allow suffering to exist because he is omnibenevolent,
premise2. therefore all things that exist don't cause suffering

conclusion. therefore small pox, chicken pox, swine flu, anthrax, bird flu, ebola, bone/brain tumors, cancer, HIV/AID's, tapeworms, malaria, dengue, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, droughts, mass starvation, asteroids and meteors, global warming, black holes, justin beiber, donald trump etc don't cause suffering
Facepalm

1) God allow suffering because He loves all of us. Without suffering we can not have eternal progression/eternal life. If God hated us He would never let us suffer. We would never have an opportunity to become like Him, Gods.

2) So far Obama is bad thing that happens to us(American people) if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor"
Gruber: "Ah, those stupid American people"
Pelosi: let's sign the bill so we can find out what is in it"
stupid Democrats signed the bill WITHOUT reading it. This is tragedy. Or comedy?

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21-08-2015, 01:36 PM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2015 07:20 AM by unfogged.)
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(21-08-2015 01:08 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 06:51 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Eternal torture for a finite crime is not justice, it is vindictiveness. Your father god is an immoral shyster. Got it.
Gods do not torture anybody for eternity.
"eternal punishment" doesn't mean that it will last eternity. "Eternal punishment" means this: it comes from ETERNAL God. It means that in the past there were beings that were punished, now there are beings that are having punishment, in the future it will be beings that will be punished. But it doesn't mean that each being is going to be punished forever.

That is simply incoherent. I have no clue what you are trying to say.

Quote:
(20-08-2015 06:51 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Nobody else can if you think justice matters. If anybody else pays then Adam simply owes the debt to somebody else.
Yes, yes. He owes it to JESUS. Now Adam owes to Jesus NOT to Father.
But Jesus is not the Father. That is why He makes now CONDITIONS of the contract/covenant.
Jesus says: now you do NOT owe to Father even one penny. You owe zero to God Father. I paid for you all debt. Now I am your new Creditor. I make conditions of contract.

So the father set up a loophole to get out of obeying the rules he is bound by. Again, that doesn't actually relieve him of the obligation. All you have here is a sham set up to fool whatever enforces the rules to make it look like they applied both justice and mercy. It may sound good but ultimately it solves exactly nothing.

Overall, I've heard some pretty convoluted nonsense before but your theology really outdoes them all. This is the biggest load of bullshit ever. If you actually believe any of this then you are one seriously delusional individual. There isn't a shred of evidence to support any of it. I really do feel very sorry for you and anybody else mired so deeply in this muck.

edited to fix broken quote tag

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21-08-2015, 01:38 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(21-08-2015 01:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(21-08-2015 05:25 AM)Chas Wrote:  Do you require blood for forgiveness, then?
Yes, only blood of innocent can remove sins. No water, no fabric, but only blood.

Then you are a vile human being. Lucky for society most people are better than you and your god.

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21-08-2015, 03:13 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
First wash in the blood. Then use one of those enzyme sticks, because blood is hard to wash out.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-08-2015, 03:26 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(21-08-2015 01:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(21-08-2015 05:25 AM)Chas Wrote:  Do you require blood for forgiveness, then?
Yes, only blood of innocent can remove sins. No water, no fabric, but only blood.

What is your evidence for this?

Quote:Why only blood? In order to understand answer to this question someone has to understand what "taking sins upon himself" means.

It doesn't mean anything - it is nonsense.

Quote:Someone has to understand what happened to Jesus(Yahweh) in Gethsemane.
In order to understand this "hidden manna" someone has to believe in this first.

Nothing happened, it is fiction.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2015, 01:15 AM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
I guess I am late to the party, but every denomination teaches this. Maybe not at your particular church, but every ( at least to my knowledge ) denomination of Christianity teaches that he is all good and all loving unconditionally. lol...

Otherwise, if god didn't love us and was the supreme "good guy" why follow such a being? That is why the abraham religion reigns supreme over all. Because their god is all good, all justice and therefor the all good things for eternity that people want. The justice to their injustice, the safety warm blanket to keep them safe and warm at night and the god that is on their side that wants to do good things.

As for how OLD this argument is?

[Image: quote-is-god-willing-to-prevent-evil-but...342329.jpg]


Epicurus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus
341 BC - 270BC ATHENS

This quote, this idea that the all loving god is all loving has been around in the OT and IS a part of that teaching since the very beginning, well before Christianity, Jesus, Mary, or anything else that includes your denomination as well ever existed.

It is an old quote, it is an old philosohpy to be sure, but still relevant to the topic.


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22-08-2015, 01:40 AM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
Omnibenevolence was taught in my church. I think you have as many philosophical problems with a god that whose benevolence has limits as you do with one who has no limits. After all, if a god is not perfectly good is it worthy of any kind of absolute trust? As for the Christian god how can a god who is less good than its followers be worthy of any kind of worship or adoration?

A good god is incompatible with the state of this world. A god who is not good is not worthy of the title. Both are failures.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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22-08-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(21-08-2015 01:36 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(21-08-2015 01:08 PM)Alla Wrote:  Gods do not torture anybody for eternity.
"eternal punishment" doesn't mean that it will last eternity. "Eternal punishment" means this: it comes from ETERNAL God. It means that in the past there were beings that were punished, now there are beings that are having punishment, in the future it will be beings that will be punished. But it doesn't mean that each being is going to be punished forever.
That is simply incoherent. I have no clue what you are trying to say.
I know.
I will try to explain it better. There are many Gods. Our God is part of eternal chain of Gods. Our God is part of family of Gods. So what does "eternal punishment" mean? It means that punishments that our God gives to His children or will give in the future is not something new. Many beings on past planets before us had the same kind of punishments we may have and it will be beings on future planets who will have the same kind of punishments we may have.
That is why punishment is eternal. But it doesn't mean that you for example will be punished with eternal punishment(exists from eternity to eternity) forever.
Did I explain better?

(21-08-2015 01:36 PM)unfogged Wrote:  So the father set up a loophole to get out of obeying the rules he is bound by.
Yes, He did and many Gods did the same before Him and will do in the future.
Gods OBEY eternal laws. Otherwise They can not be Gods.
(21-08-2015 01:36 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Again, that doesn't actually relieve him of the obligation. All you have here is a sham set up to fool whatever enforces the rules to make it look like they applied both justice and mercy. It may sound good but ultimately it solves exactly nothing.
You do not know one thing: why only blood of innocent can wash away sins.
You don't know why this eternal law exists: only blood of innocent wash away sins.
(21-08-2015 01:36 PM)unfogged Wrote:  There isn't a shred of evidence to support any of it.
Sure. I just believe what the Holy Ghost testifies to me. You don't have to believe. You have no reason because you don't have the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(21-08-2015 01:36 PM)unfogged Wrote:  I really do feel very sorry for you and anybody else mired so deeply in this muck.
I feel bad that not all people have this gift - gift of the Holy Ghost.

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22-08-2015, 01:17 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(22-08-2015 12:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  I feel bad that not all people have this gift - gift of the Holy Ghost.

I had it. I found it nauseating so I puked it up.

#sigh
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