Omnibenevolent (all loving)
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19-08-2015, 03:16 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(19-08-2015 02:41 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  When did it become an arrow in the quiver in the argument against Christianity? And, which type of Christians would actually support this wholly inaccurate portrayal of God from the Bible?

Most of them, though most would also be quick to turn around and say, in the same breath, that their god will punish those who refuse to follow his teachings. Doublethink is fairly standard practice, whatever denomination of Christianity you belong to.

Omnibenevolence is church doctrine more than Biblical character trait, but the passages jennybee and others presented above are generally the ones used to prop it up. It's not actually central to any part of the religion itself. It's just a way to make Christianity more palatable.

Rather standard cult practice, actually. Ensure the newcomers that they are loved and treasured right up until the point where they disagree with you, then withdraw that love and support and tell them that it's their fault, because of course the cult and its god are loving and good. You must have done something wrong.

Public relations tool and an easy means of manipulating the parishioners, all in one.

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19-08-2015, 03:29 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(19-08-2015 03:11 PM)Cozzymodo Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 03:09 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  As an FYI, that's not what 1 John 4:8 says/means. Just saying.

Please explain. I know that one must be careful not to proof text the Bible, but it seems pretty cut and dry there.

Well, he's saying that because the verse says that "God is love" then that means God is "all loving".

That's not the context of the verse. At all.

Look at v1. Who is the audience? The "beloved". Who is the "beloved"? They are the Christians/elect that this letter is written to. Who is "us"? The "beloved". This passage isn't talking about everyone and anyone. The Greek has a word for that, and it's specifically not used.

In that, the verses make absolutely no claim that God is all-loving. In fact, the passage is beseeching the beloved to love their fellow beloved the way that Christ loves them... unconditionally. But that does not make God all loving in all ways to all people (omnibenevolent). It makes God selectively loving towards His beloved.

If you actually read the entire chapter and the surrounding verses, the context is clear. Picking a single verse to support a purported claim is called "cherry picking".

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19-08-2015, 03:41 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(19-08-2015 03:29 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Picking a single verse to support a purported claim is called "cherry picking".

That what churches/people do. That's why we have around something like 30k denominations of Christianity. Everybody teaches "their" version of Christianity, and selects parts of the bible that back up those teachings.
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19-08-2015, 03:43 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
[/quote](*sorry I screwed up the quote. This is in reference to John 3:16)
it's not saying that the love is for everyone.
[/quote]

Yes it does. If you believe this means the"elect or chosen" world, you better think again. The greek word for world here is kosmon, the same word used in 1 John 2:15

"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

That word kosmon cannot refer to a separate set of people like you seem to think it does

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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19-08-2015, 03:55 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
I agree completely that the Bible does not present the character of god as omnibenevolent, either in describing god or in statements attributed to god. God certainly never states that he has benevolence towards all of his creations. He is rather easily offended. The "love" that the god character shows is that of an abusive parent: conditional, impossibly demanding, capricious, and often fatal. My contention, accepting for purposes of argument the text of the Bible, is that such a god is not worthy of worship or adoration, and that this god's self-characterization as good is a lie. The god of the Bible is evil. It would violate my morals to worship him.

The omnibenevolence claims come from Christians, not the Bible. Many Christians argue that suffering, devastation, deaths of innocents and soulless animals, the "fallen" nature of man, etc., all serve a greater good conceived by a god who loves all, but somehow humans can't learn these lessons in any other way. (omnibenevolent, maybe, but not omnipotent( That lets these Christians, along with god, blame the student rather than the Teacher. That's Stockholm syndrome, if you ask me.

As a reader, I adore Bible God. He is a bombastic villain who murders with impunity and the other characters never seem to care or demand an explanation that holds water. God yells, and the people say, yah, okay, you did the right thing.

I just wish someone would find the last volume of the Trilogy (Old Testament, New Testament, Final Testament) where the God character finally pays for his crimes…
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19-08-2015, 04:45 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
It's probably one of those philosophical things.

e.g. God is the greatest possible being -> an all loving being is greater than a being that is not all loving -> therefore God is all loving.

I agree that you can't get omnibenevolent from the Bible though. Petty, jealous and tyranical? You bet! Thumbsup But all loving? Not so much. No

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19-08-2015, 04:49 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
John 3:16 God loves the world(meaning humans).
So, if you are human(part of the world) God loves you. God Yahweh(Jesus Christ) paid for your sins. You are saved from hell(death) even if you don't believe in Christ, even if you offend Him or His Church. Because of one man Adam ALL die, because of one man Christ ALL will LIVE(salvation from hell(death))
This is unconditional love of God.

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19-08-2015, 04:54 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
Where did Original Sin come from, where did Transubstantiation come from, where did the immaculate conception of Mary come from? This stuff just comes from the monks and priests over time trying to find ways to explain things and come up with ideas to explain god.

Well, even where did the idea of Omniscience, Omnipotence, & Omnipresence come from? Those weren't applied to the Christian/Jewish God of the Bible in there as well. Those were the classical debate of Greeks or other ancient cultures styles of a God.

The current US/Western world culture just wants to think of a "good" God so it comes out of somewhere. I don't know if there was anything about it in the 3rd Reformation or during the early 1900s when Christianity kinda tried to unite itself political opposed to it's formally divisioned groupings of each denomination having their own sense of Christianity.

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19-08-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(19-08-2015 04:54 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Where did Original Sin come from,
I don't know. Show me the Scripture that has words "original sin". Book, chapter, verse.
(19-08-2015 04:54 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  where did Transubstantiation come from,
From Satan and From Catholic church
(19-08-2015 04:54 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  where did the immaculate conception of Mary come from?
From Satan and from Catholic church.
(19-08-2015 04:54 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Well, even where did the idea of Omniscience, Omnipotence, & Omnipresence come from?
From God. But many don't know what it really means according to true God's dictionary.

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19-08-2015, 05:15 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(19-08-2015 03:29 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 03:11 PM)Cozzymodo Wrote:  Please explain. I know that one must be careful not to proof text the Bible, but it seems pretty cut and dry there.

Well, he's saying that because the verse says that "God is love" then that means God is "all loving".

That's not the context of the verse. At all.

Look at v1. Who is the audience? The "beloved". Who is the "beloved"? They are the Christians/elect that this letter is written to. Who is "us"? The "beloved". This passage isn't talking about everyone and anyone. The Greek has a word for that, and it's specifically not used.



In that, the verses make absolutely no claim that God is all-loving. In fact, the passage is beseeching the beloved to love their fellow beloved the way that Christ loves them... unconditionally. But that does not make God all loving in all ways to all people (omnibenevolent). It makes God selectively loving towards His beloved.

If you actually read the entire chapter and the surrounding verses, the context is clear. Picking a single verse to support a purported claim is called "cherry picking".

Paul made it clear that he thought anyone who had faith in Christ became "children of God."

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:26-29, KJV)
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