Omnibenevolent (all loving)
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20-08-2015, 07:16 AM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
I gotta say, KC knows what he's talking about here. All his comments on the Greek terms are 100% correct.

I also noticed that the Greek translation of this part
(19-08-2015 02:49 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Psalm 86:15 - But you, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness.
is VERY different. It's more like three different words meaning "merciful", then "slow to anger" and then "true". No mention of grace, love or faith. I wonder why that is.

However, I need to point out that the Greek church insists on the omnibenevolent aspect of God, based not on the fact that God can save everyone, but rather that God loves everyone so much that he gives everyone the chance to be saved. That is how they interpret John 3:16. Which makes sense, even though I'm still not convinced that there's any proof of God's all-loving nature in the Bible.

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20-08-2015, 07:18 AM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(19-08-2015 02:41 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm confused as to where this doctrine comes from and which denominations teach it.

...

When did it become an arrow in the quiver in the argument against Christianity? And, which type of Christians would actually support this wholly inaccurate portrayal of God from the Bible?

It's a lot of what JennyBee said. In my experience, the church promotes God's love more than other aspects of him. Bad things are attributed to Satan and sin. So, regardless of whether it is Biblically accurate, I think a lot of people get the notion that God is supposed to be omnibenevolent.

Add this to Epicurus' problem of evil, where he lists God as "malevolent" if he is able but not willing, and I can see an assumption that should be benevolent.
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20-08-2015, 07:21 AM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(20-08-2015 07:16 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  However, I need to point out that the Greek church insists on the omnibenevolent aspect of God, based not on the fact that God can save everyone, but rather that God loves everyone so much that he gives everyone the chance to be saved. That is how they interpret John 3:16. Which makes sense, even though I'm still not convinced that there's any proof of God's all-loving nature in the Bible.

They lie. Big Grin

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

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20-08-2015, 07:31 AM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(20-08-2015 07:21 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 07:16 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  However, I need to point out that the Greek church insists on the omnibenevolent aspect of God, based not on the fact that God can save everyone, but rather that God loves everyone so much that he gives everyone the chance to be saved. That is how they interpret John 3:16. Which makes sense, even though I'm still not convinced that there's any proof of God's all-loving nature in the Bible.

They lie. Big Grin

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

They also change things to fit their agenda.
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20-08-2015, 07:31 AM (This post was last modified: 20-08-2015 07:38 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(19-08-2015 02:41 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Many, many times I see this used as an argument against Christianity.

"If God is all loving, why did He create Satan?"
"If God is all loving, how can He allow suffering?"
"If God is all loving, why do parents - even Christian parents - lose children?"
etc

I'm confused as to where this doctrine comes from and which denominations teach it.

The Bible clearly does not teach omnibenevolence in either the OT or the NT; likewise, I do not know of a denomination that teaches O4 instead of O3. I never even knew that omnibenevolence was a thing or a supposed characteristic of the Christian God until I started posting on TTA.

When did it become an arrow in the quiver in the argument against Christianity? And, which type of Christians would actually support this wholly inaccurate portrayal of God from the Bible?

I'm surprised to find that it's not a traditional belief in regards to the "omnis". It seems to be primarily found in anti-christian, anti-theistic writings. There doesn't seem be any official stance on it in the variety of Christian traditions, as opposed to the other 3 omni's.

I probably would have never have known that, if you hadn't brought up the question.
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20-08-2015, 08:14 AM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(20-08-2015 06:52 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 09:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  Without sacrifice even if God forgives you, you still can not enter His Kingdom.

Obviously repentance can't be sincere unless it is drenched in innocent blood because god so loves his creation. Or something like that anyway.
Drinking Beverage

Sometimes I swear this must be an experiment to see how convoluted and ridiculous can the story be made and still have people believe it.

I know right? Forget omnibenevolence, if god is even omnipotent, why couldn't he come up with a way to save humanity without having to appease his insatiable blood lust? Or even come up with a better system of allowing the first man free will without placing tree o death in his front yard?

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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20-08-2015, 08:39 AM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(19-08-2015 03:09 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 03:04 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  1 John 4:8 does a good job of summing it up:

"He who does not love does not know God, for God is love"

It goes far beyond saying that god does love by saying that he is love or the very embodiment of love by which all standards of love should be based.

But then we read the old testament and see the very opposite of love. The willful murder of men, women and children for failing to obey his very long list of demands or for simply being non-hebrew.

"Surely I say, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. Except the Caananites. Fuck the Caananites"

As an FYI, that's not what 1 John 4:8 says/means. Just saying.

And other Christians disagree with you. Just sayin'.

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20-08-2015, 12:25 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(20-08-2015 07:31 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 02:41 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Many, many times I see this used as an argument against Christianity.

"If God is all loving, why did He create Satan?"
"If God is all loving, how can He allow suffering?"
"If God is all loving, why do parents - even Christian parents - lose children?"
etc

I'm confused as to where this doctrine comes from and which denominations teach it.

The Bible clearly does not teach omnibenevolence in either the OT or the NT; likewise, I do not know of a denomination that teaches O4 instead of O3. I never even knew that omnibenevolence was a thing or a supposed characteristic of the Christian God until I started posting on TTA.

When did it become an arrow in the quiver in the argument against Christianity? And, which type of Christians would actually support this wholly inaccurate portrayal of God from the Bible?

I'm surprised to find that it's not a traditional belief in regards to the "omnis". It seems to be primarily found in anti-christian, anti-theistic writings. There doesn't seem be any official stance on it in the variety of Christian traditions, as opposed to the other 3 omni's.

I probably would have never have known that, if you hadn't brought up the question.

As a questions sake, where are the other 3 Omnis even at in the Christian traditions?

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20-08-2015, 12:40 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(19-08-2015 09:52 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 09:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  Without sacrifice even if God forgives you, you still can not enter His Kingdom.

Because you see, Alla's weak impotent god is not the master/creator of Reality, but is subject to it.

It is true. God Yahweh is not a Creator of reality. He never even claimed this.
May be some false gods "create" reality in somebody's minds. But TRUE Gods are subjects to eternal laws.
God can not let sinner enter His glory. Even if He could sinner would feel miserable in presence of God. If I am covered with mud I will be very miserable among very clean fancy people in a very fancy place.
Only if my sins are washed away, (only if I take a shower) I do not remember my sins, I do not see the dirt.

Only blood of God(Christ or Yahweh) can LITERALLY wash my sins away.
But you have no idea how it works. Don't you?

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20-08-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(20-08-2015 08:14 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 06:52 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Obviously repentance can't be sincere unless it is drenched in innocent blood because god so loves his creation. Or something like that anyway.
Drinking Beverage

Sometimes I swear this must be an experiment to see how convoluted and ridiculous can the story be made and still have people believe it.

I know right? Forget omnibenevolence, if god is even omnipotent, why couldn't he come up with a way to save humanity without having to appease his insatiable blood lust? Or even come up with a better system of allowing the first man free will without placing tree o death in his front yard?

It's easier to believe the biblical god is malevolent, though if this is the case, why wouldn't the biblical god create a system which you have to dedicate your life for a promise of eternal reward and then simply renege on the promise?

That's what a malevolent god would do, he would send everyone to hell and get the most pleasure from torturing the fools that believed his lies.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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