Omnibenevolent (all loving)
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20-08-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(20-08-2015 06:52 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 09:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  Without sacrifice even if God forgives you, you still can not enter His Kingdom.

Obviously repentance can't be sincere unless it is drenched in innocent blood because god so loves his creation. Or something like that anyway.
Drinking Beverage
Sincere repentance can bring forgiveness or Mercy but it will rob Justice.
God can not rob Justice. If He does He can not be God any more.
Blood of Christ or Atonement helps to have Mercy without robbing Justice.
I know you still don't understand why.

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20-08-2015, 01:07 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(20-08-2015 12:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  Sincere repentance can bring forgiveness or Mercy but it will rob Justice.
God can not rob Justice. If He does He can not be God any more.
Blood of Christ or Atonement helps to have Mercy without robbing Justice.
I know you still don't understand why.

You've said that before and what I don't understand is how you can't see how inane that is. Third-party atonement does not magically supply either mercy or justice. It only adds an injustice to the third party.

Mercy and justice are at odds with each other. You can't have either without diminishing the other. Adding a third party into the mixture does not alter that, it just changes who suffers what degree of injustice. The entire concept is as barbaric as it is ridiculous.

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20-08-2015, 01:08 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
God - volume 1: coniving, manipulative, control freak, given to irrational temper tantrums, fits of jealousy, narcissism, attention whoring and has a bit of a ... umm, God complex. Dodgy A total dick.

God - the sequel (son of god): says he's a different guy, says he's changed, grown, says he forgives all your bullshit ... even if you didn't know you were full of it, he says you were and he knows because, he's one of you! Oh, all the same rules from volume 1 still apply, but at least when you are burnning in hell, part of him will feel sad. (probably the attention whore part)

Hmm... nope, nothing about all nicely, nice God. Who knows how people get their kooky notions? Shy

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20-08-2015, 01:08 PM (This post was last modified: 20-08-2015 01:12 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
Alla, do you shoot moonshine laudanum before you write a post?

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20-08-2015, 02:06 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(19-08-2015 09:23 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 06:48 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Since when has any sect bounded its doctrine entirely within the Bible? All of them either add extrabiblical doctrine, or ignore the uncomfortable parts. No sect is both purely and wholly biblical.

As for omnibenevolence itself, clearly the Christian conception of God doesn't include that aspect, yet so many Christians do. So a better question is not why atheists argue against omnibenevolence, but why so many sects argue for it when passages like Isaiah 45:7 directly contradict it.

Furthermore, the expression of God in the Bible directly contradicts what Paul has to say about love in 1Cor13. That needs to be cleared up before this question can be answered.

"No sect is both purely and wholly biblical."

True.
If they were the members would be
- totally confused
- in prison.

Yes, I'm admittedly shooting fish in a barrel there.
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20-08-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(20-08-2015 12:43 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 08:14 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  I know right? Forget omnibenevolence, if god is even omnipotent, why couldn't he come up with a way to save humanity without having to appease his insatiable blood lust? Or even come up with a better system of allowing the first man free will without placing tree o death in his front yard?

It's easier to believe the biblical god is malevolent, though if this is the case, why wouldn't the biblical god create a system which you have to dedicate your life for a promise of eternal reward and then simply renege on the promise?

That's what a malevolent god would do, he would send everyone to hell and get the most pleasure from torturing the fools that believed his lies.

Who's to say he doesn't? No one's ever come back with reportage. A malevolent god would likely not advertise the fact in the book his followers read, worship, and obey ... sort of.
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20-08-2015, 02:13 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(20-08-2015 12:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  Blood of Christ or Atonement helps to have Mercy without robbing Justice.
I know you still don't understand why.

I personally find torturing and murdering an innocent party, in order to expiate the guilty, to be profoundly unjust and therefore immoral.

One more reason to reject Christian doctrine, as if one more reason were needed.
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20-08-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(20-08-2015 01:07 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 12:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  Sincere repentance can bring forgiveness or Mercy but it will rob Justice.
God can not rob Justice. If He does He can not be God any more.
Blood of Christ or Atonement helps to have Mercy without robbing Justice.
I know you still don't understand why.

You've said that before and what I don't understand is how you can't see how inane that is. Third-party atonement does not magically supply either mercy or justice. It only adds an injustice to the third party.

Mercy and justice are at odds with each other. You can't have either without diminishing the other. Adding a third party into the mixture does not alter that, it just changes who suffers what degree of injustice. The entire concept is as barbaric as it is ridiculous.

I want to add to this and (hopefully) make some sense to Alla.

Let's say your child was murdered by some psycopath, gets caught and goes to trial. The judge sentences him to die for the crime he commited. Before he is escorted out, a man sitting in the court stands up and proclaims that he wishes to take the guilty man's place at the electric chair if they will let him go. The judge agrees, the man that murdered your child walks free out the door and the innocent man gets carried away to die.

Yes or no, would you say that justice was served?

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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20-08-2015, 02:25 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
(20-08-2015 07:16 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  I gotta say, KC knows what he's talking about here. All his comments on the Greek terms are 100% correct.

I also noticed that the Greek translation of this part
(19-08-2015 02:49 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Psalm 86:15 - But you, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness.
is VERY different. It's more like three different words meaning "merciful", then "slow to anger" and then "true". No mention of grace, love or faith. I wonder why that is.

However, I need to point out that the Greek church insists on the omnibenevolent aspect of God, based not on the fact that God can save everyone, but rather that God loves everyone so much that he gives everyone the chance to be saved. That is how they interpret John 3:16. Which makes sense, even though I'm still not convinced that there's any proof of God's all-loving nature in the Bible.

Credit goes to my brother on the Greek stuff.

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20-08-2015, 02:27 PM
RE: Omnibenevolent (all loving)
It's worse than that; according to this analogy, the innocent man would be taking the place of EVERYONE on death row, as long as they requested that the death be substituted for them.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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