Omniscience Takes Another Hit
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11-09-2012, 07:19 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2012 11:48 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Omniscience Takes Another Hit
(11-09-2012 04:30 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  God can live outside our current understanding of physics all He wants. In fact, you can make this argument about any "paradox" you bring up (He lives "outside" of paradoxes), and I know this because I've heard exactly that argument in the recent past from Ghost. But theists prefer to claim that their God is scientific, and this is just one more thing that makes Him improbable and harder to explain.

All of Christian (and as far as I know, all other religion's) "systematics", Metaphysics, Theology, Philosophy and Moral Theology, (Aquinas, Craig, etc), are built on the assumption that the universe is logical, rational, and, at least to some degree "available" to our brains. Either they are ALL "whistling in the wind", and need real jobs, OR, their god really does not operate "outside our current understanding of physics". Cant have it both ways.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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07-10-2012, 11:59 PM
RE: Omniscience Takes Another Hit
Was talking to a friend on YouTube. We cooked up another one. (It cannot possibly be the first time anyone thought of it, and likely even has a name, as it's so obvious ... )

1. God is neither omniscient, nor omnipotent : He could not know the future when he hadn't created time yet.
2. There was no future to know, before time existed.
3. There was a future.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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08-10-2012, 01:03 AM
RE: Omniscience Takes Another Hit
(07-10-2012 11:59 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Was talking to a friend on YouTube. We cooked up another one. (It cannot possibly be the first time anyone thought of it, and likely even has a name, as it's so obvious ... )

1. God is neither omniscient, nor omnipotent : He could not know the future when he hadn't created time yet.
2. There was no future to know, before time existed.
3. There was a future.

I get where you're going with this, but I don't think it's valid. It's true that one could "not know the future" while time didn't exist, in the same way that you could not know the color of my widget (an item that doesn't exist). But in establishing a place without time, line 3 doesn't follow because there was no future (because there was no time).

However, time was eventually created (if such a phrase can even be coherent) and so was and is "the future". Because the future did exist in concept, even if it didn't exist before time, it seems fair that God could conceptually understand the future, in the same way that you could know the color of my widget after such a thing has been defined. So in establishing line 3 to be true, line 1 becomes untrue.

It pains me to shoot down an argument against the concept of God, but it just doesn't work... but don't scrap it; try harder. It feels like you're onto something.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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