Omnithread
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26-04-2010, 06:52 PM
 
Omnithread
Yahweh is omnipresent right? So why is he so hard to locate?
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26-04-2010, 06:56 PM
RE: Omnithread
God cannot be detected because he is immaterial, incorporeal, invisible, and atemporal.

In other words, he can't be detected because he doesn't exist.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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26-04-2010, 07:01 PM
 
RE: Omnithread
Yahweh is omnibenevolent right? So why are there hurtful things happening?
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26-04-2010, 07:17 PM
RE: Omnithread
The problem is the vague definition of "love" that we have. Every person expresses their love differently. That's why I don't stand behind the whole problem of evil as an objection to the existence of an omnibenevolent deity: there are too many ways that he could express his love without eliminating all bad things. The best example I can think of is a parent letting their children learn from their mistakes.
Other people - some philosopher, I'll look up his name and the work I'm talking about in a minute - say that the universe actually contains more good, from God's viewpoint, if evil exists, in the same way that a symphony can be made more beautiful if the composer purposefully adds disharmonic notes to contrast the melody.

*shrugs*

Personally, I think the biggest problem is the first one I listed. I don't think the problem of evil is a particularly powerful objection to theism, but that also doesn't grant theism any validity.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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26-04-2010, 07:19 PM
 
RE: Omnithread
i have a question about that and many actually do, i hope. if god is immaterial than how is he supposed to interact with the material. it poses the same core problem as with dualism.

ceryle take it away
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26-04-2010, 07:23 PM
RE: Omnithread
(26-04-2010 07:19 PM)ulfark Wrote:  i have a question about that and many actually do, i hope. if god is immaterial than how is he supposed to interact with the material. it poses the same core problem as with dualism.

Exactly. If God is supernatural, he cannot interact with the natural, and if he is natural he cannot be God. So he doesn't exist either way.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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26-04-2010, 07:37 PM
 
RE: Omnithread
I have a simple and convenient solution.

Magic.

Hehe.

How is this possible? Well obviously because Yahweh is omnipotent of course. By its defining features Yahweh is capable of anything. {In all seriousness I'll do my best to answer that question seriously Ulfark, just not right now.}

Which brings me to my next Omni-question. If Yahweh is omnipotent, then why are there arguments used in support of Yahweh, that circulate around the lack of this factor?

Also, "The best example I can think of is a parent letting their children learn from their mistakes." Makes perfect sense in a closed system. The problem is, that humanity isn't a 'child' of Yahweh. Humanity is 'created' by Yahweh. There is a distinct difference between the two. When you create something, you are building it from the ground up. As such, Yahweh, piece by piece, constructed the human mind. Anything that ever was, or has been, has been directly influenced by its hand. There is no difference between humanity and Yahwehs creation, as they are one in the same. When a human does something bad, it is because Yahweh designed them in such a way so that they would inevitably do that bad thing.

"say that the universe actually contains more good, from God's viewpoint, if evil exists, in the same way that a symphony can be made more beautiful if the composer purposefully adds disharmonic notes to contrast the melody." That's just it though. Yahweh is omnipotent. ANYTHING is possible for it then. There are no constraints, absolutely no argument can work around that fact. Bad things occur, because Yahweh, wants them to occur, not because they are necessary in the least. As I postulated on another thread here, Yahweh could just have easily conceived a universe, in which the culminating events are not contingent upon its initiation; yet it chose not to. Thus why I agree with Ulfraks hypothesis, that if Yahweh did exist, then he would be a malevolent asshole.
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26-04-2010, 07:39 PM
RE: Omnithread
(26-04-2010 07:37 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  Also, "The best example I can think of is a parent letting their children learn from their mistakes." Makes perfect sense in a closed system. The problem is, that humanity isn't a 'child' of Yahweh. Humanity is 'created' by Yahweh. There is a distinct difference between the two. When you create something, you are building it from the ground up. As such, Yahweh, piece by piece, constructed the human mind. Anything that ever was, or has been, has been directly influenced by gods hand. There is no difference between humanity and gods creation, as they are one in the same. When a human does something bad, it is because Yahweh designed them in such a way so that they would inevitably do that bad thing.

Ah, but theists also believe in free will.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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26-04-2010, 07:52 PM
 
RE: Omnithread
"Ah, but theists also believe in free will."

And from a similar basis I also argue that free will, in a universe with a god such as Yahweh, is impossible. I will posts the links to my posts covering this topic, as opposed to cluttering this thread with copied information.

http://thethinkingatheist.com/forum/show...46#pid3246

http://thethinkingatheist.com/forum/show...69#pid3269
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26-04-2010, 08:06 PM
RE: Omnithread
(26-04-2010 07:52 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  "Ah, but theists also believe in free will."

And from a similar basis I also argue that free will, in a universe with a god such as Yahweh, is impossible.

So do I, but from the theist point of view, if you grant the existence of free will, omnibenevolence is not impossible.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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