On Pol Pot and Mao Zedong's Atheism
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01-04-2014, 11:59 AM
On Pol Pot and Mao Zedong's Atheism
They were both Theravada Buddhists. While that is technically Atheism since Buddhism is an Atheistic religion, they were not Atheists in the sense people try to portray them as.
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01-04-2014, 12:03 PM
RE: On Pol Pot and Mao Zedong's Atheism
Does it matter?

They both failed.

So close to wiping out all the theists but no cigar.

Full marks for effort, though.

Drinking Beverage

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01-04-2014, 12:12 PM
RE: On Pol Pot and Mao Zedong's Atheism
(01-04-2014 11:59 AM)Aleprauchanist Wrote:  They were both Theravada Buddhists. While that is technically Atheism since Buddhism is an Atheistic religion, they were not Atheists in the sense people try to portray them as.

[Image: %22Citation_needed%22.jpg]



Um, no.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preah_Maha_Ghosananda

As the Khmer Rouge seized control of the country, the prospects of Buddhism became increasingly doubtful. Pol Pot, who had once served in a Buddhist monastery, denounced Buddhist monks as useless pariah, and part of the feudalistic power structures of the past. Monks were viewed with suspicion and disdain as part of the intellectual class, and targeted for especially brutal treatment and "reeducation".

As part of the Khmer Rouge's horrific Year Zero campaign, monks were systematically turned out of monasteries and forced to disrobe and become farming peasants, or were tortured and murdered outright. Some monks were forced to violate their vows at gunpoint. By the time the Khmer Rouge reign of terror ended, there were no monks alive in Cambodia, and most temples were in rubble.



Similarly, as a teenager Mao abandoned whatever flavor of Buddhism his family held nominally but obviously (considering the family history of abuse) did not actually practice. Highly unlikely that it was Theravada as China was and is primarily mahayanist.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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01-04-2014, 12:13 PM
RE: On Pol Pot and Mao Zedong's Atheism
(01-04-2014 12:12 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 11:59 AM)Aleprauchanist Wrote:  They were both Theravada Buddhists. While that is technically Atheism since Buddhism is an Atheistic religion, they were not Atheists in the sense people try to portray them as.

[Image: %22Citation_needed%22.jpg]



Um, no.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preah_Maha_Ghosananda

As the Khmer Rouge seized control of the country, the prospects of Buddhism became increasingly doubtful. Pol Pot, who had once served in a Buddhist monastery, denounced Buddhist monks as useless pariah, and part of the feudalistic power structures of the past. Monks were viewed with suspicion and disdain as part of the intellectual class, and targeted for especially brutal treatment and "reeducation".

As part of the Khmer Rouge's horrific Year Zero campaign, monks were systematically turned out of monasteries and forced to disrobe and become farming peasants, or were tortured and murdered outright. Some monks were forced to violate their vows at gunpoint. By the time the Khmer Rouge reign of terror ended, there were no monks alive in Cambodia, and most temples were in rubble.



Similarly, Mao abandoned whatever flavor of Buddhism his family did not actually practice. Highly unlikely that it was Theravada as China was and is primarily mahayanist.
Blush
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01-04-2014, 03:17 PM
RE: On Pol Pot and Mao Zedong's Atheism
It is not so much the belief, it is if they killed for those beliefs. Hitler was a christian, however his Christianity was not the reason he killed people, even though it may have played a role. Same with these two. The question is did they kill for atheism, or did these killer so happen to be atheist.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] ♪僕は恐怖の一定した状態に住んで、不幸、逃すもう?僕は、それはもう痛いときも気づかないと
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04-04-2014, 05:55 PM
RE: On Pol Pot and Mao Zedong's Atheism
(01-04-2014 11:59 AM)Aleprauchanist Wrote:  They were both Theravada Buddhists. While that is technically Atheism since Buddhism is an Atheistic religion, they were not Atheists in the sense people try to portray them as.

The thing is, is that they did not do what they did because they did not believe in God. Thats absurd.

I have NEVER heard of somebody doing something because there was no God.

“Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.

-Christopher Hitchens
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04-04-2014, 06:49 PM
Star RE: On Pol Pot and Mao Zedong's Atheism
1. Buddhism is a religion, like any other. Supernaturalism, patriarchal, dogmatic, regressive, extremist factions that murder other religions (namely minority Muslims in east Asia), etc.

2. People can most certainly "do something" if they knew there was no hindrance or punishment. It doesn't mater if the authority figure is real or imaginative. Their motives are their own.

However, there's nothing in atheism in itself that promotes or encourages one to be irrational or immoral.
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04-04-2014, 09:30 PM
RE: On Pol Pot and Mao Zedong's Atheism
(04-04-2014 06:49 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  1. Buddhism is a religion,

Yes.

Quote: like any other.

No.

Quote: Supernaturalism, patriarchal, dogmatic, regressive, extremist factions

You are addressing some modern incarnations, apparently, and in many caases that is indeed true.


Quote: that murder other religions (namely minority Muslims in east Asia), etc.

[Citation needed]

How does one "murder"..."other religions", really...?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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04-04-2014, 09:48 PM
RE: On Pol Pot and Mao Zedong's Atheism
Your willful ignorance is not my place to educate you on.

You can easily search for the magical beings and supernatural beliefs and repressiveness, and sexism, etc (again, like any other religion) that Buddhism is based on. If you want to only recognize the "kitsch" Hollywood variety of "Buddhism" fine, but that's being dishonest and doesn't have to do with the topic of this thread.

You can easily search the key terms provided, about self described Buddhists murdering people of minority religions.

Your comments are bad (and apologetic) and you should feel bad.
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04-04-2014, 10:49 PM
RE: On Pol Pot and Mao Zedong's Atheism
Mao saw the teachings of Confucius as a threat to his power base. He wanted to obliterate the obligations to family and ancestor worship and turn that energy into a tool of the state. A lot of his formula is actually not too far removed from the structures of Confucianism but they have subtle twists that put them at odds so they were still conceivable to the Chinese mindset.

The Chinese have shrines to the ancestors absolutely everywhere and they posed a massive impediment to collectivization as they took up value land for farming on an industrial scale.

It wasn't really being against religion and organised religion as we know it pretty much wasn't present in the first place, it was more about realigning the methodology to something that would support their position. About the only overt anti religious thing to go on in China was the Boxer Revolution and those bastards had it coming to them anyway.
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