On Strategy in the War for Sanity
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30-09-2011, 07:52 AM
 
On Strategy in the War for Sanity
If someone has not realized it yet: this is a war we are in the middle of.

If you need proof: go to the Introduction Forum and read the heart-wrenching stories of people coming here, looking for help.

Now that we agreed: it is a war -- what is the best strategy for self defense?

We won’t do ourselves any favours by trying not to offend our attackers. That will just invite more of the same.

We need to stand up for what we believe in and do so in no uncertain terms.

If someone comes here to debate us and reason with us, we owe them the courtesy of hearing them out and we will try to reason with them. If unsuccessful, we will agree to disagree and keep on trucking.

Whoever comes here to attack us (under the euphemism of “saving” us) is asking for it. They should know that we are proud of our beliefs they are trashing and, if we tell them off, they get what they deserve.

I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.

My message to them is an old one: “if you find it too hot, get out of the kitchen”.

Anyway, this is my strategy in the war.

What is yours?
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30-09-2011, 09:19 AM
RE: On Strategy in the War for Sanity
A war with no battles, no monuments... only casualties.
-Captain Marko Ramius, The Hunt for Red October.

The best way to win a war is to not invent one.
-Me

Conflict ≠ war.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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30-09-2011, 10:43 AM
RE: On Strategy in the War for Sanity
(30-09-2011 09:19 AM)Ghost Wrote:  A war with no battles, no monuments... only casualties.
-Captain Marko Ramius, The Hunt for Red October.

The best way to win a war is to not invent one.
-Me

Conflict ≠ war.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

ditto...

There are also many battles won and lost without war.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
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30-09-2011, 10:46 AM
RE: On Strategy in the War for Sanity
We need diplomacy, not war. I hate seeing Atheists like Michael Newdow in the news. They only hurt our cause.
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30-09-2011, 11:12 AM
RE: On Strategy in the War for Sanity
(30-09-2011 07:52 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  If someone has not realized it yet: this is a war we are in the middle of.

Depending on your definition, I agree but Ghost's "conflict" it a better word in my opinion.

Quote:If you need proof: go to the Introduction Forum and read the heart-wrenching stories of people coming here, looking for help.

I have my own stories as well. Most of which I have not shared. The pain is definitely not disputed. It's real.

Quote:Now that we agreed: it is a war -- what is the best strategy for self defense?

Half agreed. Please don't define what we all agree upon. That would certainly segregate me that's for sure as I believe in thinking for myself.

Quote:We won’t do ourselves any favours by trying not to offend our attackers. That will just invite more of the same.

Agreed.

Quote:We need to stand up for what we believe in and do so in no uncertain terms.

Absolutely.

Quote:If someone comes here to debate us and reason with us, we owe them the courtesy of hearing them out and we will try to reason with them. If unsuccessful, we will agree to disagree and keep on trucking.

You're on a roll!

Quote:Whoever comes here to attack us (under the euphemism of “saving” us) is asking for it. They should know that we are proud of our beliefs...

Agreed. Better warn them first. Obliterating without a reasoned approach is what they do. If you like "an eye for an eye" philosophy then we do it their way. I for one do not believe in an eye for an eye.

Quote: they are trashing and, if we tell them off, they get what they deserve.

I think that's too ambiguous and the cloud of anger will just fly back in our face. Controlled anger can be an advantage.

Quote:I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.

Here's where you and I part company. I have a lot of sympathy for human beings. I cannot divide beliefs like it's some kind of nationalism or racism.

Quote:My message to them is an old one: “if you find it too hot, get out of the kitchen”.

Really ambiguous. That could mean anything from "go study and come back later" to "hey nig... get out of my neighborhood"

Quote:Anyway, this is my strategy in the war.

I am being a bit candid, I admit. I appreciate your comments and the strength of your conviction. I agree with most of it. The parts I don't agree with are mostly semantics as I am sure we both hate ignorance with the same fervor.

Who can turn skies back and begin again?
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30-09-2011, 12:36 PM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2011 09:38 PM by Glaucus.)
RE: On Strategy in the War for Sanity
Education. That's where they are unable to hold ground. Educate them on Evolution, the origins of the Universe, and philosophy. I think that those three areas are the strongest positions against religion.

People need to stop viewing science as something only for the gifted to understand, and scientists need to learn to explain their work to everyday people better. That's why I love listening to Neil DeGrasse Tyson, he has a passion about physics that is infectious and he is able to connect to people who don't understand the details in physics.

Another important aspect that I try to use in debating is to allow them to dictate the direction of the conversation. If they want to argue about the historical accuracy of the Bible, I will gladly point out the flaws. If they then move onto morality, I'll point to the wonderful book of Leviticus. Stay on a topic long enough to counter their claims, but no longer. I've had better results from a debate when I didn't attack their religion, rather I held against their attacks. It paints them as the one who is attempting to peddle their worldview, not me.

Of all the ideas put forth by science, it is the principle of Superposition that can undo any power of the gods. For the accumulation of smaller actions has the ability to create, destroy, and move the world.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." -W. E. Henley
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01-10-2011, 10:40 AM
RE: On Strategy in the War for Sanity
(30-09-2011 12:36 PM)Glaucus Wrote:  Education. That's where they are unable to hold ground. Educate them on Evolution, the origins of the Universe, and philosophy. I think that those three areas are the strongest positions against religion.

This was true in 1975. If secularists had had the courage of their convictions then, and since - and if liberals had held the line on social services; supported public media and honest news reporting; insisted on quality public schools, on making higher education accessible to all, keeping the humanities and general science departments alive, instead of letting business take over the universities... if, if if.

As it turns out, "They" have been allowed to consolidate their hold on politics, media and commerce. They bully the elected representatives, own communication, frame issues, set agendas, employ most of the scientists.

This war has already been lost.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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01-10-2011, 12:21 PM
RE: On Strategy in the War for Sanity
Neil Degrasse Tyson is good for teaching science, so is Michio Kaku. Bill Nye used to have a science show for children, but the last I heard about him he was on some "Green Channel(?)." Ian Stewart is great at explaining geology. His documentaries should be shown in school. Yep, science education will diminish religion.

The internet is also diminishing religion as blogs, message boards, and YouTube ridicules religious beliefs.
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01-10-2011, 12:34 PM
 
RE: On Strategy in the War for Sanity
(01-10-2011 10:40 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  
(30-09-2011 12:36 PM)Glaucus Wrote:  Education. That's where they are unable to hold ground. Educate them on Evolution, the origins of the Universe, and philosophy. I think that those three areas are the strongest positions against religion.

This was true in 1975. If secularists had had the courage of their convictions then, and since - and if liberals had held the line on social services; supported public media and honest news reporting; insisted on quality public schools, on making higher education accessible to all, keeping the humanities and general science departments alive, instead of letting business take over the universities... if, if if.

As it turns out, "They" have been allowed to consolidate their hold on politics, media and commerce. They bully the elected representatives, own communication, frame issues, set agendas, employ most of the scientists.

This war has already been lost.

Thank you, Peterkin.

I awarded you a +1 Reputation -- for the clarity of perception (admitting it is a war), for the courage (admitting it is already lost) and for the intelligence (explaining why).

Smile

If liberal intellectuals, democrats and free thinkers followed Michael Moore's advice, the way he explained why he secretly admires Republicans, we might not have lost that war:

Michael Moore: “This is what I love about Republicans. I honestly, secretly, really admire them because, man, they have guts. They come in with both guns blazing. They take no prisoners.”
......
Democrats come in - I mean, by an INCREDIBLE majority in the Senate and the House, and this historic election with Obama in the White House - Democrats come in and go 'Oh, hi, hi... I guess we don't need universal health care for everybody. We can compromise. It's o.k.' It's like, they used to just sing 'Kumbaya.' "
.....
"They can avoid it by having the courage of their convictions "

Undecided
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01-10-2011, 08:08 PM
 
RE: On Strategy in the War for Sanity
Why call this a war? An us versus them mentality will only lead us down the same dark path the people we're trying to oppose have taken.
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