On This Day in American History
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19-08-2017, 04:21 PM
RE: On This Day in American History
Australia and New Zealand led the world, granting women the vote in 1894 and 1893. It took the Americans a further 27 years to follow suit, and that overly-paternalistic attitude still holds partially true even today—with only 5 current female state governors, and never one female president in more than 200 years. The Electoral College also allowed states to continue repressing women’s voting rights into the 1920s without any consequences, as the 14th Amendment (later rescinded by the 19th Amendment) explicitly reserved voting rights to "the male inhabitants" of the states—including blacks under the so-called 3/5 rule—but denying this newly expanded suffrage to women.

Ingrained paternalism is also one of the reasons of course that H Clinton didn't make the cut, despite an overwhelming 2.9 million more personal votes than Trump. Had she been a bloke, she would've pissed it in because of, or despite, the College's inherent sexism.

—Which is also a reason to get rid of the outmoded Electoral College system of voting entirely by 2020.

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19-08-2017, 04:25 PM
RE: On This Day in American History
I do wish someone could explain to me in "Electoral College for Dummies" terms, why the Electoral College is a good thing. I vaguely understand that it has some purpose of keeping more highly populated states from forcing their own personal agendas on the rest of the country....or at least that's my grasp of it from (long ago) classes that covered it.

Someone? Anyone?

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19-08-2017, 04:32 PM
RE: On This Day in American History
(19-08-2017 04:21 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Australia and New Zealand led the world, granting women the vote in 1894 and 1893. It took the Americans a further 27 years to follow suit,

1869: Wyoming No
1893: Colorado

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19-08-2017, 04:54 PM
RE: On This Day in American History
(19-08-2017 04:32 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(19-08-2017 04:21 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Australia and New Zealand led the world, granting women the vote in 1894 and 1893. It took the Americans a further 27 years to follow suit,

1869: Wyoming No
1893: Colorado

I was intending to mean on a national basis rather than a state. In which case Australia is well in the lead, with the female vote granted in Norfolk Island (a territory proclaimed by Great Britain as part of its settlement of Australia from 1788) in 1856.

As in the US, suffrage was granted in the Aussie states progressively: South Australia (1856), Victoria (1857), New South Wales (1858), Queensland (1859), Western Australia (1890) and Tasmania (1896). But it wasn't until 1902 that the Commonwealth Franchise Act, which established a uniform franchise law for our federal parliament, declared that all British subjects over the age of 21 years who had been living in Australia for at least 6 months were entitled to vote, both males and females (but not Aboriginals, until 1967!)



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19-08-2017, 05:01 PM
RE: On This Day in American History
(18-08-2017 09:16 PM)outtathereligioncloset Wrote:  As a similar aside, the second amendment of the NC constitution clearly states that as an atheist I am not allowed to hold a public office. But many years ago the federal government basically said "whoa, nope, you can't do that."

Worse than that, the SCOTUS decision on Torasco v. Watkins was about a lowly atheist notary public in MD and it's still in our constitution too.

#sigh
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19-08-2017, 05:09 PM
RE: On This Day in American History
Torasco v. Watkins I had to look that one up since I was not familiar with it.

I suspect it falls in the category of "Things We Were Not Taught in History Class."

Somehow I seem to expect the northern states to have had better sense than here in the bible belt.

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19-08-2017, 05:10 PM
RE: On This Day in American History
(19-08-2017 04:25 PM)outtathereligioncloset Wrote:  I do wish someone could explain to me in "Electoral College for Dummies" terms, why the Electoral College is a good thing. I vaguely understand that it has some purpose of keeping more highly populated states from forcing their own personal agendas on the rest of the country....or at least that's my grasp of it from (long ago) classes that covered it.

Someone? Anyone?

I think it began as a means of mutual assurance among the states that the more populous ones wouldn't run roughshod over the smaller ones in terms of passing through legislative agendas at the federal level. Could be completely wrong, though.

#sigh
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19-08-2017, 07:56 PM
RE: On This Day in American History
(19-08-2017 05:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-08-2017 04:25 PM)outtathereligioncloset Wrote:  I do wish someone could explain to me in "Electoral College for Dummies" terms, why the Electoral College is a good thing. I vaguely understand that it has some purpose of keeping more highly populated states from forcing their own personal agendas on the rest of the country....or at least that's my grasp of it from (long ago) classes that covered it.

Someone? Anyone?

I think it began as a means of mutual assurance among the states that the more populous ones wouldn't run roughshod over the smaller ones in terms of passing through legislative agendas at the federal level. Could be completely wrong, though.

That's two different questions, "is it a good thing" and "why was it done that way." Girly is right, the tension between populous and smaller pop states was a large part of the wrangling going on during the three months the constitution was written. Like other parts of it, it was a compromise- notice each state gets 2 electoral votes for sure (to reflect equal state representation) and each state gets additional electoral votes for number of representatives (population based, as is the House of Reps). Regarding representation in Congress, this was probably the biggest issue that had to be resolved, and it almost wasn't.

With the electoral college, another important aspect at that time was fear of "democracy." It was actually kind of a dirty word at the time. "Democracy" was something akin to mob rule. The presidency was too important (they felt) to leave to the dirty unwashed masses. The idea wasn't to exclude the masses, but to temper their passions into wisdom. The electoral college was a go-between...elect people in your neighborhood that you trust, that are wise, that aren't assholes, and send them to Washington. When they get there (part of this is that they understood information is imperfect, and direct election may rely on information that was outdated or incorrect), they can get the facts on the ground, find out what's really what, and choose the person that the person YOU trust thinks is most qualified.

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19-08-2017, 08:08 PM
RE: On This Day in American History
(19-08-2017 07:56 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  With the electoral college, another important aspect at that time was fear of "democracy." It was actually kind of a dirty word at the time. "Democracy" was something akin to mob rule. The presidency was too important (they felt) to leave to the dirty unwashed masses. The idea wasn't to exclude the masses, but to temper their passions into wisdom. The electoral college was a go-between...elect people in your neighborhood that you trust, that are wise, that aren't assholes, and send them to Washington.

Considering how miserably the electoral college failed in this stated purpose by electing Trump, I think it should be trashed so everyone's vote counts equally.
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19-08-2017, 08:20 PM
RE: On This Day in American History
(19-08-2017 08:08 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Considering how miserably the electoral college failed in this stated purpose by electing Trump, I think it should be trashed so everyone's vote counts equally.

That's a whooooooole 'nuther can of worms...some people I wouldn't trust to walk my dog or carry a pair of scissors, so not sure they should be voting...but they are probably evenly spread out so dopey voters in, say, Montana, shouldn't have more power than dopey voters in New York!

But you are dead right votes in the US DO NOT count equally and therefore Trump won. There is a lot of griping about how Trump lost the popular vote, but he won the game that was being played.

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