On governance
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07-12-2011, 07:54 PM
RE: On governance
Zat I think you totally missed my point.

I wasn't actually saying it is broken, just that people are saying it's broken. Saying it doesn't make it so. There has been so much complaining about what's wrong with the forum, and the only problem I've had with it is how much complaining there has been about what's wrong with it. It's made up problems almost for the sake of having some. And over reactions on the part of everyone complaining. We are almost all adults and yet people are so quick to point the finger, cry foul, then quit when shit wasn't going their way. I have a kid and she's ever so fond of that tactic.
Just because people have disagreements doesn't mean they give up. If that was the case none of us would even be here would we?

My question is this, why the fuck did any of the people who are now suddenly dissatisfied, come here and enjoy any time at all if everything is awful? When did you for instance Zat, find things unsatisfactory? What was it that made you decide it wasn't good enough anymore? I am not getting it.

I stated that I would personally not frequent the forum anymore if it changed a lot because frankly I like it the way it is, but I wouldn't leave with any malice. I don't get where all the seeming aggression and anger is coming from. I get annoyed all the time, lots of recent... both related and unrelated. But then I get over it. It's the internet for fuck sakes. It's supposed to be informative, fun, sexy, interesting, and pointless.

One other comment, maybe more... I'm beginning to feel ranty. Plus I'm booming some metallica. As for democracy, no one said we were one. But if we were a democracy then the vote was cast and the little guy lost. What the little guy lost I couldn't fucking tell you because I wasn't even aware that anyone was fighting for anything. Last I knew the biggest issue was the kids posting too much silly shit. Not really the biggest deal. Suddenly people are leaving left and right. There was another issue about the reputation system, though again I'm not really sure why that was such a big deal. Suddenly people are declaring demotions and quitting, sounds like a lot of horse shit to me. I made the comment before that it seems like there's a lot of stick in ass syndrome going around and I stand by it.

Now Stark is stepping down and I'm pretty sure it's because of comments made by "certain" people, and that's horse shit too. I don't think I actually have anything else, my assumption of more ranting seems to have been an over estimate of my ranting capabilities. Sorry for getting everyone's hopes up.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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07-12-2011, 08:07 PM
RE: On governance
Don't worry Lucradis, it's how we all feel right now. The ones with the problems and the ones without. I think both sides are really confused as to what the big issue is. at least Zatamon has now stated that he dislikes there being a boss. I gave him very true statements though. How a democratic system would function is how it's going right now. People don't like voting on everything so someone would be declared the decision makers and votes would pretty much be on a we have issues basis. The only thing is that we add some bureaucratic stuff to bog down things and all the sudden everyone is upset with the system. The democratic system is not that great. and it doesn't work for small groups. The group has to be large enough that the members can accept that their individual needs might not be met. There isn't even a 1000 active members.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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07-12-2011, 08:08 PM
RE: On governance
I agree with Lucradis, this is all bullshit.

Firstly we have a few complaints about the maturity of a few posts (which I completely don't understand as if I don't think a thread appeals to me then I don't click it, I guess I'm just not a moron) which were limited to a section of the forum designated and specifically created for immature posts.

Then suddenly people are starting to criticise the structure of the forum, where is the link? Why does a few complaints mean that the suddenly the whole place needs restructuring?

Zat, I think that this was a good thread to make but you made it for the wrong reasons. I think you started this thread, not to find out the views of the majority, but because you assumed that everyone would want a democracy, and now you can't accept it that most responses called for things to remain as they are.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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07-12-2011, 08:11 PM
RE: On governance
Lucradis,

and I guess everyone else too,

I promise that the comments made by "certain" people is not the only reason I am resigning as admin. I will admit, they may well have been the straw that broke the camels back, but I've been thinking for a while now that the forum may be better served by a fresh face as admin.

I am frustrated by more than just the comments. It's partially the attitude that goes with them. It feels as though a few people suddenly feel like they are not getting their way, and are using a tactic that says, "well, everyone would benefit from me getting my way, so I want for the sake of the forum, not for myself." Then I turn around and see tons of people talking about how they love the forum and how it's run. They compare it to other forums and say it is the best they have ever found. Yet the complaints are loudest, and garner the most attention.

I want this forum to succeed. I always have. I think that my motivation to put that desire into action has been worn down. So to avoid doing things and making decisions for myself, under the guise of "for the sake of the forum", I think it's better that someone with fresh motivation take the reigns.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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07-12-2011, 08:18 PM
RE: On governance
I think that taking a break and letting someone else take over for a while is a great idea Stark. I've never been opposed to it. I'm sorry that you're deciding this during a particularly dramatic moment. We'll see who steps up hopefully within a month and hopefully it'll clear the air a bit, but at least we'll get to see how someone else does.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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07-12-2011, 08:20 PM
 
RE: On governance
(06-12-2011 02:12 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  I am not saying that we should bow to a minority (if it is indeed a minority), I only suggested that their concerns should be taken into account.

Once they are properly addressed and discussed (as opposed to sweeping them under the carpet), I am perfectly happy to accept the majority decision, if I decide that personally it works for me. Smile

If not, I either learn to live with it --- or not. Sad

I said it all in the post I quoted.

I decided that I cannot live with the system and the attitudes I experienced in this, and a few other, threads -- it does not mean that I find my ideas superior, it only means that I have my own preferences and that the Forum membership and I have irreconcilable differences. No one is to be blamed, we are just too different.

Let's just leave it at that.

I have no hard feelings toward anyone and I hope it is mutual.

I really wish you the best of luck.
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07-12-2011, 08:27 PM
RE: On governance
Zat, we already have a kind of democracy. if people have problems they are brought up here and we come to a consensus on how to change it.

What is it that you really want? My role here is as a site admin and I look after the site - database, software config, html template, etc. I assist whoever is admin: Stark Raving and that will change soon.

I'm not willing to take on extra burdens for your sake. If you come up with a system where the roles are clearly defined and it's a clean working system I'd think it's worth considering.

I'm not going to get caught in the tangle of Democratic vote maintenance. If you want something done the chain of command needs to be clear and the final decisions need to be done in a way that insulates me from the petty bureaucratic squabbles.

I put enough time into this site already! Just saying one word 'democracy' isn't going to cut it... sorry.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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07-12-2011, 08:34 PM
RE: On governance
Ok, so here's a suggestion:

Zat, if you have an inclining of how the site could be better run, instead of leaving, why not toss your name in the hat for my replacement?

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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07-12-2011, 08:34 PM
 
RE: On governance
DeepThought, I appreciate your comments.

Let me just say that, at this point, I prefer to stand back and watch what happens -- you guys have enough input from me and all the other unsatisfied members I quoted from. You are all (almost all) highly intelligent, independent-minded free-thinkers, I am sure you will come up with something that suits you.

If it suits me as well, then I will come back.

The important thing for you is to come up with something that you like!

(07-12-2011 08:34 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Zat, if you have an inclining of how the site could be better run, instead of leaving, why not toss your name the the hat for my replacement?

Stark, thanks, but I am too old for all that much work that worn you down.

You need somebody a lot younger and stronger. Smile
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07-12-2011, 08:59 PM
RE: On governance
I just got back from work and finished reading all this. Let me put in my 2 cents,


(ahem)


IT'S A FUCKING INTERNET FORUM!!!!


We don't need a political ideology or an established regime. We don't need a council to vote on issues that affect the community. Whoever the fuck wants to register can register and post whatever the fuck they want. If they want to post an 18 page thread about how they couldn't find the shoes they were looking for yesterday, all they have to do is make sure it's in the right category. We as other members have no fucking right to censor them unless they are breaking the forum protocol that exists in every forum. No spamming, no flaming, no trolling. The end.

Similar to what others are hinting at, there was no problem until certain people came along claiming there was a problem. Complaining about petty facebook style threads by using petty facebook style complaints.

AND STOP TELLING EVERYONE YOU'RE LEAVING. JUST LEAVE.

This isn't a KISS farewell tour, it's an anonymous site to post opinions. So if you are unsatisfied, don't come here! Your spot will be filled by thousands of people over the next few months. Holy Christ you fuckers are annoying. GET THE FUCK OUT.


Thank you.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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