On guns, where does one draw the line
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06-02-2013, 03:18 PM
RE: On guns, where does one draw the line
(06-02-2013 03:08 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(06-02-2013 02:49 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I. Did. Not. Say. Ban. All. Guns.

If people want guns for self-defense, fine. But that does not mean they should not be required to register it, get a license, have insurance for it, redo their training and license annually, etc.

I want better mental health care too. This is not a thread about health care. This is a thread about gun rights and gun laws. Changes to those can help prevent those rare cases, that aren't rare enough when we read about a new one every few weeks. If our laws put in place checks and balances to detect mental breaks before they snap, that can potentially help prevent instances of extreme and unusual violence.

I'm not advocating for any more hoops than one goes through to drive a car. Why are they unreasonable?
Mass shootings are way more rare than mental breakdowns and you are asking for more hoops to jump through. How often do you have to go drivers ed classes?
I so wish they made people retake that test every few years. The jackasses in my small town have NO FUCKING CLUE how to use a roundabout.

Anyone from Canada reading this want to tell me how many people in Canada care about guns and how much of a problem violence is there and whether more guns would improve it at all?

Pro-gun people seem to fancy themselves as cowboys taking the law into their own hands, and the average person is just incompetent and stupid enough to not be trusted to do so. Do you want the average person that does not know what to do at a roundabout in charge of law enforcement?

Is this place still a shithole run by a dumbass calvinist?
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06-02-2013, 03:22 PM
RE: On guns, where does one draw the line
Enough people in Canada care that they've started repealing the harsher laws. Do you want the word of a Canadian? My buddy Dave would probably be glad to say a word or two.

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06-02-2013, 03:22 PM
RE: On guns, where does one draw the line
I also like how you recognize that you are committing the slippery-slope fallacy but go ahead with it. You are aware that there are plenty of politicians at the government level who are pro-gun that would not let gun regulations ever reach that point...right?

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06-02-2013, 03:24 PM
RE: On guns, where does one draw the line
(06-02-2013 03:22 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Enough people in Canada care that they've started repealing the harsher laws. Do you want the word of a Canadian? My buddy Dave would probably be glad to say a word or two.
Right, so they make an attempt at fixing the issue and miss the mark and then attempt to change it to fix it for the better. What is wrong with making a mistake and then trying to fix it? That is the scientific method, but doing nothing fixes nothing. You can't be afraid of making mistakes, you just have to be willing to admit them and fix them. I'm not saying our first stab at new regulations and laws would hit the nail on the head, but that is why we keep having the debate, not a shouting match where we stick our fingers in our ears.

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06-02-2013, 03:30 PM
RE: On guns, where does one draw the line
You're comparing something that you wished would happen, not what is so you can not honestly make the statement that it isn't more hoops to jump through.

The slippery-slope is not a fallacy. It can be a fallacy, and in this case it may be if one was arguing that the slippery slope ended with a full out ban on all guns. There are slippery slopes though, because people in the future will make the (silly) argument "We've already done this, therefore that" which will eventually work to an extent.

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06-02-2013, 03:35 PM
RE: On guns, where does one draw the line
(06-02-2013 03:30 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  The slippery-slope is not a fallacy. It can be a fallacy, and in this case it may be if one was arguing that the slippery slope ended with a full out ban on all guns. There are slippery slopes though, because people in the future will make the (silly) argument "We've already done this, therefore that" which will eventually work to an extent.
And what was implied was essentially that changes to gun laws here would result in gun bans on par with that of other countries. This would be why any changes made would need to be made so as to account for this possibility. Not avoided because it is deemed inevitable.

The "war on drugs" did not result in a war on all drugs. We still have caffeine and nicotine and alcohol, etc. Because we make it clear what is acceptable and what is not from the outset. And we did not get it all right the first time (we could go back to prohibition that failed miserably) and you could certainly make the case we still have it wrong now (perhaps allowing natural substances but not man-made substances?), and the realization of that means we keep having the debate on to or not to legalize certain drugs. We are seeing the fruition of that debate now in some states. If we get it wrong the first time, we change it.

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06-02-2013, 04:03 PM
RE: On guns, where does one draw the line
Here goes the problem again.

You can't keep, over and over again, doing this:

Politics: What should we do about guns?

Guy 1: Libertarian, or Conservative, answer...

Guy 2: Liberal answer...

Guy 1: Statistics, with bullshit personal bias...

Guy 2: Statistics, with bullshit personal bias...

Guy 1: "Social and economic problems"...

Guy 2: "Yes, social problems too, but what about guns?"...

Guy 1: "Who cares? There are more of us anyway; Democracy is a bitch." Big Grin ...

Guy 2: "But, what about guns?" Sadcryface ...

Guy 2: "Social issues?" Weeping ...

Guy 2: "Anyone?" Sad ...

Guy 2: Continues being a Jew...

CNN: 'Mass shooting'...

*repeat*

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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06-02-2013, 04:17 PM
RE: On guns, where does one draw the line
Although I'm doubtful anyone will pay attention- I'll put this out there anyway.

http://backstoryradio.org/straight-shot-...broadcast/


It's a link to the history of the gun control issue in America and even how it ties in to racism. It would be interesting for anyone, but maybe especially for those outside the US who wonder why guns are so important to us. The BackStory guys cover everything for the last three centuries and a bit before. It's related to the topic but I don't post it necessarily to make a specific point.

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06-02-2013, 06:14 PM
RE: On guns, where does one draw the line
@ TrulyX Well, I tried to avoid that, but TBD wouldn't have any of it.

@TBD Yeah, and like there aren't many people who advocated that we should make caffeine or tobacco illegal there aren't many people who want to make air cannons and harpoon guns illegal.

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06-02-2013, 08:31 PM
Re: On guns, where does one draw the line
I'm not advocating for making guns illegal. Are you actually reading my posts?

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