On the 11th of September...
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11-09-2015, 04:17 AM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2015 04:30 AM by The Germans are coming.)
On the 11th of September...
...1297 William Wallace who, with a smaller force of Scottish peasants and lesser noble knights, had camped out at a brigde over the river Forth leading to castle Stirling where the governing English sheriff was based, defeated the sheriffs supirior force of English knights on horseback, by luring the inexpirienced commanding sheriff into a closed off ditch that renderd the English horses and mobility useless. He then proceeded to flay the skin off the hated English sheriff and to make a scabbard for his sword out of the sheriffs skin...



.....1683 the Siege of Vienna ended when the king of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth John Sobieski the third, leading a combined force of Polish, Lithuanian, Austrian, Hessian, Bavarian, Francish, Saxon, Swabian and Hungarian troops, arrived at Vienna which was besieged by Ottoman troops. The Ottomans underestimated the combined European forces under command of the Polish king and attacked, which subsequently lead to them being defeated and routedby the supirior Polish cavalry and Hessian pikes. Subsequently King Sobieski liberated the city of Vienna, ended 300 years of Ottoman expantion into Europe and ironicly established the Habsburg monarchic hegemony over Austria, Southern Germany, Hungary, Bohemia and the Western Balkans that would 200 years later destroy the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Polish monarchy in the third partition of Poland and brutaly supress Polish culture and freedom for the next 200 years...



...1708 King Charles the 12th of Sweden makes the stereotypical mistake of marching an invading army on Moscow shortly before the winter and his forces subsequently freeze to death..



...1714 The siege of Barcelona ends with the city falling to a French army loyal the Bourbon royal family, ending Catalan autonomy for the next 200 years and further cementing the Bourbon takeover of the Spanish throne in the Spanish war of Succession...



...1803 British forces defeat the army of the Maratha of Scinida and his French allies in Delih, thereby driving the French out of India and leaving the Marahta Empire weakend and without allies...



...1813 Canadian troops under British command march on and invade Washington DC, leading to the sacking, pillaging and burning of the city and the burning of the white house and senate building to the ground. To this day Canada remains the only nation to have ever successfully invaded the USA...



...1851 a Maryland slave owner who had traveld to Pennsylvania to legaly recover his runaway slaves is lynched by an angry mob of runaway slaves. Establishing Pennsylavania as a safe route for freed slaves to Canada and further fuling the social conflict that would lead to civil war...



...1939 Canada declares war against nazi Germany, thereby for the first time declaring war as an independent nation...



...1973 Augusto Pinochet with the support of the CIA leads a military coup in Chile, murdering the democraticly elected President Salvador Allende and establishing a fascist military dictatorship that would murder thousands of Chilean opposition figures, intellectuals, artists, democrats, leftwingers and others for the next 17 years...



..1988 under the dictatorship of Leslie Manigat in Haiti the parish and priest of the catholic church St. Jean Bosco who oppose the regime, are brutaly massacred in the church grounds during a mass, the resulting outrage leads to the overthrowing of the regime...



...1997 the people of Scotland vote in a referendum to establish a Scotish parlaiment in Holyrood...

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11-09-2015, 04:36 AM
RE: On the 11th of September...
So, what you're saying is, you too are just as sick and tired of America's global cultural imperialism?

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11-09-2015, 04:47 AM
RE: On the 11th of September...
(11-09-2015 04:36 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  So, what you're saying is, you too are just as sick and tired of America's global cultural imperialism?

What I am saying is that you will never get over 9/11.

The Scots got their independent kingdom (until they sold it off).
The Polish reestablished their nation.
The Swedes were less embaressed when the French and Germans also marched on Moscow during winter.
The Catalans regained their autonomy.
India regained it`s independence.
The Canadians dont rub their victory into American faces.
The Americans abolished slavery.
Pinochets disgusting dictatorship ended.
Haiti is a democracy today.
The Scots regained some autonomy.

These wars and conflicts all ha a point of closure, but there is no closure after 9/11.

I am not making some naiv point about "American Impirialism"... I leave that stupidity to people who went to college for one semester and think they know how the world works.

After killing Bin Laden there was no closure for the American public, because the war against Suni Islamist clerical fascism is still ongoing. Even if the US had somewhat pacified Afghanistan it wouldnt have brought the US closure since that reched ideology still flurishes in Saudi Arabia, Sudan, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Lybia, Tunisia, Algeria, Pakistan and to some extent it is crawling out of the stinking sewers in Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunai.

It is not a conflict against a nation or people but a conflict against an ideology. And you cant defeat an ideology by military victories. An Ideology can only defeat itself through failure.

Closure for the American public can only come through a secular, modern, reason based, democratic and pluralist counter culture that would confront what currently is established within the islamic world as the principles guiding moral values and the governance.

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11-09-2015, 04:56 AM
RE: On the 11th of September...
hmm too European positive, mix it up with some other things too.

1857 Indians incited by Mormon John D. Lee kill 120 California-bound settlers in the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

1974 Haile Selassie I is deposed from the Ethiopian throne.

1966 Princess Akishino, nee Kiko Kawashima, wife of Prince Akishino, second son of Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko of Japan. She is only the second commoner to marry into Japan’s royal family.

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11-09-2015, 07:57 AM
RE: On the 11th of September...
I agree 100% that you can not defeat an ideology with military victories. In the end, the ideology has to fail as did communism.
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11-09-2015, 08:07 AM
RE: On the 11th of September...
(11-09-2015 07:57 AM)Iñigo Wrote:  I agree 100% that you can not defeat an ideology with military victories. In the end, the ideology has to fail as did communism.

Is your username a skyrim mod?

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15-09-2015, 04:13 AM (This post was last modified: 15-09-2015 04:16 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: On the 11th of September...
(11-09-2015 04:47 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  These wars and conflicts all ha a point of closure, but there is no closure after 9/11.

I am not making some naiv point about "American Impirialism"... I leave that stupidity to people who went to college for one semester and think they know how the world works.

After killing Bin Laden there was no closure for the American public, because the war against Suni Islamist clerical fascism is still ongoing. Even if the US had somewhat pacified Afghanistan it wouldnt have brought the US closure since that reched ideology still flurishes in Saudi Arabia, Sudan, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Lybia, Tunisia, Algeria, Pakistan and to some extent it is crawling out of the stinking sewers in Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunai.

It is not a conflict against a nation or people but a conflict against an ideology. And you cant defeat an ideology by military victories. An Ideology can only defeat itself through failure.

Closure for the American public can only come through a secular, modern, reason based, democratic and pluralist counter culture that would confront what currently is established within the islamic world as the principles guiding moral values and the governance.

Right, the only problem is, the vast majority of Christian Americans would rather just bomb brown people on the other side of the globe while sliding further into an economically untenable foreign policy. Because you're right, the best way to fight the root problem is to change their culture; but US culture needs it's own dressing down and repairs. I'd much rather my nation got it's collective shit together and started leading again through example, as a beacon of how well a secular and progressive republic can function. But while our own house is such an utter mess, it's easier to just send drones than to actually fix anything at home. Plus a major cornerstone of that fight needs to be secularism, which would put domestic Christian over-reach into the same cross-hairs that need to be trained on Islamic fundamentalists; and that's simply not a bridge that a majority of Americans are currently willing to cross. The United States is many things, but 'introspective' is not one that comes to mind.

Case in point, I had to consciously remind myself to write 'United States' instead of 'America', because 'America' is not a single country.

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15-09-2015, 07:32 AM
RE: On the 11th of September...
(15-09-2015 04:13 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  ... I'd much rather my nation got it's collective shit together and started leading again through example, as a beacon of how well a secular and progressive republic can function...

When have we ever led by example? The Indian wars, the Mexican war, slavery, the civil war, Jim Crow, staying out of WWII until the Japanese forced us into it, dropping the Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, sponsoring the murderous dictatorships in Latin America, Vietnam, invading Iraq under false pretenses (the non-existent chemical weapons)...

The United States has from its founding been as brutal, as bloodthirsty, as thieving of other peoples' land, as dishonest in its dealings with its own citizens and the world at large, as every other nation. We're no better and we're no worse. We've certainly never been an example.

As for the OP, you give examples where it took 200 years for a nation to recover, and you glibly say that the U.S. will "never" recover from an event that only happened 14 years ago? If we manage to side-step all the possible civilization-ending disasters (nuclear war, asteroids, climate change, suffocation in our own waste, resource depletion, etc.) we'll get over 9/11. Eventually.

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el cielo por alas,
nosotros por lágrimas."
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15-09-2015, 08:59 AM
RE: On the 11th of September...
Meh give it 60 years or so and American kids will think patriot day has to do with the revolutionary war.

Just like today when most kids think D day was the end of world war two and don't know what armistice day even was.

Facepalm


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-09-2015, 09:08 AM (This post was last modified: 15-09-2015 09:12 AM by earmuffs.)
RE: On the 11th of September...
Quote:...1813 Canadian troops under British command march on and invade Washington DC, leading to the sacking, pillaging and burning of the city and the burning of the white house and senate building to the ground. To this day Canada remains the only nation to have ever successfully invaded the USA...

Wait, back the truck up. What!?

Quote:Just like today when most kids think D day was the end of world war two

Oh Jesus Christ...

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