On the Aurora shooting
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23-07-2012, 02:23 PM
RE: On the Aurora shooting
(23-07-2012 05:40 AM)Filox Wrote:  Can this thread please be moved to "World News", since it has nothing to do with atheism or theism.

In "World News" we already have 2-3 threads about this shooting, so can you please check the threads before posting new ones, that already exist?
Filox -- sorry, I thought it did have to do with atheism and theism.

I wasn't covering the news, I was looking at the theistic attacks on atheism as the root cause for these types of tragedies...I try to be cognizant of the forums I post in Wink

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23-07-2012, 03:23 PM
RE: On the Aurora shooting
Who said anything about his yelling "I'm the Joker" before he started shooting? The reports were that when accosted near his car by the police he identified himself as the Joker then. It occurred to me that he might have thought that an amusing answer if he's twisted enough.

I am pissed off at ABC News for reporting that when contacted by an ABC reporter, his mother said, "You have the right person." ABC left that wide open so that it was too easy to conclude that she was expressing a lack of surprise that he'd been arrested for something that horrific.

According to her statement read by the family's attorney at the press conference about an hour ago, she was awakened by the phone at about 5:45 a.m. and asked if she was Arlene Holmes, mother of James E. Holmes. Logically enough, she replied, "You have the right person," having no idea whatsoever what had happened, that her son was in custody, and this was why a reporter had called and awakened her.

However, ABC somehow neglected to put her statement in the appropriate context, as did the other services I was listening to. I thought, "Wait a minute. Does that mean, "Yes, I'm Mrs. Holmes" or "I'm not surprised; I've been expecting a call like this"?

Talk about extremely irresponsible reporting, that pretty much takes the cake.
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23-07-2012, 03:29 PM
RE: On the Aurora shooting
Sad His family's gonna go through hell... She probably thought he'd had an accident or something, with a phone call at that time.

Think as the guy from Kim's link said, there's gonna be a lot of very speculative reporting going on, a lot of stuff fueled by people's expectations of what a murderer is like... because a murderer is definitely not someone like you or me... definitely not...
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23-07-2012, 10:12 PM
RE: On the Aurora shooting
(23-07-2012 02:07 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Lots of things trouble me on this.

1 - A 6 year old girl was killed. Terrible enough, but what was a 6 year old doing at an R rated film (for violence) at a midnight showing. There was also a baby in the audience. Does anyone have any common sense any more? The parents just couldn't wait to see the movie? Why is anyone under 18 allowed in any movie at a midnight showing?

2 - The jump to call this guy a T-Party member by ABC, which was not true. To use this tragedy as political ammunition before the dead are even buried is SICK! ABC News go fuck yourself.

3 - The call to ban guns (again) as if this is the root cause (Bloomberg). The three most deadly shootings have occurred outside of the US. 77 killed in Norway. 57 killed in South Korea. 35 killed in Australia. All having much tighter gun control laws than the US. Colorado also has some of the most strict gun laws as a reaction to the Columbine shootings. It didn't stop this one.

4 - The call to put metal detectors at movie theaters. No need for comment on this stupid idea except that he came in the exist door.

5 - The constant stating of his name, showing his face. We can't give these people publicity as this is a big reason for their actions. They want to be known. It's part of the mental illness. Delusions of grandeur.

This is a sick twisted person. That's it. No one could see it coming. The only blame is this nutcase himself. We can't set policy on emotions driven from tragedies.

What has changed in America? I used to watch Batman as a kid. No guns, No lethal weapons of any kind. The fights were silly and everyone got up and walked away. There were plenty of guns around then as well. No one wants to consider that some people cannot separate fantasy from reality. "I'm the Joker" he called out before killing 12 people. He didn't yell, "The T-Party Rules".

If the human race is going to survive as a species we need to make rational decisions based on accurate analysis, not rush to blame, judge and react on emotions.

I like your insights, especially point #1, but I have a couple of disagreements.

First, why would it matter when a news channel defines a shooter as a Tea Party member? If it's true, it's fine to report at any time, and if it's false, it's never a good time to report it. People wants details as soon as they can get them, and I really don't understand why a news outlet should purposely hold back information on the shooter (assuming it's true).

Second, the point about shootings outside of the country is a legitimate one, but it's not put in proper context. Overall, there is less gun violence in countries like Norway. I'm not really a fan of gun control, but I'm not a fan of cherry-picking data, either. There are good reasons not to limit the right to bear arms, but this case is fair evidence for those who do want limits.

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23-07-2012, 11:51 PM
RE: On the Aurora shooting
It appears I have ranted in the wrong place... You wanna make something right, and you make it worse. How typical of me...


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24-07-2012, 12:11 AM
RE: On the Aurora shooting
Quote:I wasn't covering the news, I was looking at the theistic attacks on atheism as the root cause for these types of tragedies...

Who says atheism is the root cause in this case??

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24-07-2012, 12:12 AM
RE: On the Aurora shooting
Well the Christians say it, isn't it the usual routine?

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24-07-2012, 01:20 AM
RE: On the Aurora shooting
(23-07-2012 03:23 PM)Her Dotness Wrote:  However, ABC somehow neglected to put her statement in the appropriate context, as did the other services I was listening to. I thought, "Wait a minute. Does that mean, "Yes, I'm Mrs. Holmes" or "I'm not surprised; I've been expecting a call like this"?

Talk about extremely irresponsible reporting, that pretty much takes the cake.

I noticed that. Yesterday I kept hearing differing accounts of his demeanor, in court. They were all wrong in my opinion. First I heard CNN say he was "emotionless". Then I read in a local paper he looked "sleepy, and uninterested". Then NPR said later he looked "dazed and confused". So I watched. To me he looked very frightened, very aware, and very very sad. Whenever anything was said, it looked like he was about to burst into tears. Goes to show they mostly make it all up.

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24-07-2012, 01:25 AM
RE: On the Aurora shooting
It's the media, of course they are going to say whatever bring them popularity, not what is actually going on. We will not know what is going on until the trials start, so that we can hear his voice and what he says about all this.

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24-07-2012, 05:05 PM
RE: On the Aurora shooting
(24-07-2012 01:25 AM)Filox Wrote:  It's the media, of course they are going to say whatever bring them popularity, not what is actually going on. We will not know what is going on until the trials start, so that we can hear his voice and what he says about all this.

I think here you're equivocating "media" to include pundits. News media are very good about citing their sources. Even the weatherman doesn't just tell you what the weather will be like, but points out the data and tells you exactly why it's going to be rainy or sunny.

Journalists often say "such and such says that..." and then they follow with the quote, or they say "videos taken by the police car show..." and then show you the video. You don't have to simply "take their word for it" because they're giving you real and factual data to base your knowledge on. The only thing you have to worry about is their quoting a lying or biased source. I don't understand why you want to "hear [the alleged murderer's] voice and what he says about all this", because the accused is a biased source by definition... it's impossible for him not to have a stake in the outcome of his case. Eyewitnesses who have nothing to gain or lose are generally a much better source of data than the police, prosecutor, defendant, or friends and family of the defendant or victim(s).

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