On the Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible
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03-06-2014, 07:35 AM
RE: On the Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible
(03-06-2014 06:46 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  Well let me join in. I'll give my not so technical side of the possible explanation of the plurality. Before I became a sceptic and atheist, I was big on conspiracy theories. So before I started questioning things I found out about the writings of Zacharia Sitchin. He dealt with the cuneiform tablets of the ancient Babylonians.

In these writings the Babylonians speak of beings that came from the sky. They are the ones that created humans. They were here to mine and didn't like doing the work themselves. So the story goes that one of their leaders Enki (I think) said to the lot of them, "Let us create the Adamu in our image". According to Sitchin's take on the Babylonian writings, we were created by them to be their slaves. The anunaki leader Enki was speaking to the others and that's why you've got the plurality. Abraham was from a city called Ur that was right next to or in Babylon. So I thought it was no wonder that there were parallels in the Babylonian mythology and the bible.

Sitchin (a Jew) also said he was having Sunday school one time when they got to the part about the sons of god coming down to earth to sleep with the daughters of man. He raised his hand to ask why the teacher read the text in singular form. It is the sons of gods! He was reprimanded for questioning the word of god. This is also dealt with in the Sumerian/Babylonian tablets by Sitchin.

I'm more likely to believe that than whatever the hell they preach now.

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03-06-2014, 08:37 AM
RE: On the Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible
(03-06-2014 06:46 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  Well let me join in. I'll give my not so technical side of the possible explanation of the plurality. Before I became a sceptic and atheist, I was big on conspiracy theories. So before I started questioning things I found out about the writings of Zacharia Sitchin. He dealt with the cuneiform tablets of the ancient Babylonians.

In these writings the Babylonians speak of beings that came from the sky. They are the ones that created humans. They were here to mine and didn't like doing the work themselves. So the story goes that one of their leaders Enki (I think) said to the lot of them, "Let us create the Adamu in our image". According to Sitchin's take on the Babylonian writings, we were created by them to be their slaves. The anunaki leader Enki was speaking to the others and that's why you've got the plurality. Abraham was from a city called Ur that was right next to or in Babylon. So I thought it was no wonder that there were parallels in the Babylonian mythology and the bible.

Sitchin (a Jew) also said he was having Sunday school one time when they got to the part about the sons of god coming down to earth to sleep with the daughters of man. He raised his hand to ask why the teacher read the text in singular form. It is the sons of gods! He was reprimanded for questioning the word of god. This is also dealt with in the Sumerian/Babylonian tablets by Sitchin.

Of course, Sitchin got all his translations the old-fashioned way - by making them up...

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03-06-2014, 04:39 PM
RE: On the Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible
The Biblical authors were inspired by God to write what they did. The verse in Genesis is right in line with what Christ taught about the Godhead.
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03-06-2014, 04:44 PM
On the Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible
(03-06-2014 04:39 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The Biblical authors were inspired by God to write what they did. The verse in Genesis is right in line with what Christ taught about the Godhead.

Then why did they get it wrong? According to the Francis Collins, evangelical Christian and founder of the Human Genome Project:

Quote:Unfortunately, the scientific evidence shows that Adam and Eve could not have existed, at least in the way they’re portrayed in the Bible. Genetic data show no evidence of any human bottleneck as small as two people: there are simply too many different kinds of genes around for that to be true. There may have been a couple of “bottlenecks” (reduced population sizes) in the history of our species, but the smallest one not involving recent colonization is a bottleneck of roughly 10,000-15,000 individuals that occurred between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago. That’s as small a population as our ancestors had, and—note—it’s not two individuals.

http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/...a-contest/

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
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03-06-2014, 04:48 PM
RE: On the Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible
(03-06-2014 04:44 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 04:39 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The Biblical authors were inspired by God to write what they did. The verse in Genesis is right in line with what Christ taught about the Godhead.

Then why did they get it wrong?

They wrote what God inspired them to write. If a man thinks he knows better then that is fine. God knows more than Francis Collins.

God knows who the first two humans were who were made in His Image and Likeness. Francis Collins is not God.
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03-06-2014, 05:13 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2014 05:20 PM by rampant.a.i..)
On the Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible
(03-06-2014 04:48 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 04:44 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Then why did they get it wrong?

They wrote what God inspired them to write. If a man thinks he knows better then that is fine. God knows more than Francis Collins.

God knows who the first two humans were who were made in His Image and Likeness. Francis Collins is not God.

And yet we have empirical evidence that the Assyrian biblical Adam and Eve creation myth is impossible.

Francis Collins isn't the only one saying this, scientific consensus does, based on massive amounts of empirical evidence.

Just because you can't understand genetics doesn't mean Bronze Age savages did, or that scientists don't.

People like you should be banned from using computers developed by science if they continue to reject science.

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(01-06-2014 04:39 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  you cannot prove with absolute certainty that God does not exist and I cannot prove with absolute certainty that He does.

So I see no need to debate this.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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03-06-2014, 05:28 PM
RE: On the Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible
(03-06-2014 05:13 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 04:48 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  They wrote what God inspired them to write. If a man thinks he knows better then that is fine. God knows more than Francis Collins.

God knows who the first two humans were who were made in His Image and Likeness. Francis Collins is not God.

And yet we have empirical evidence that the Assyrian biblical Adam and Eve creation myth is impossible.

Francis Collins isn't the only one saying this, scientific consensus does, based on massive amounts of empirical evidence.

Just because you can't understand genetics doesn't mean Bronze Age savages did, or that scientists don't.

People like you should be banned from using computers developed by science if they continue to reject science.

[Image: du3u3ata.jpg]

(01-06-2014 04:39 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  you cannot prove with absolute certainty that God does not exist and I cannot prove with absolute certainty that He does.

So I see no need to debate this.

lol you are funny! Smile
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03-06-2014, 06:17 PM
RE: On the Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible
(03-06-2014 04:39 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  The Biblical authors were inspired by God to write what they did. The verse in Genesis is right in line with what Christ taught about the Godhead.

Were is the evidence of this Assertion ?Thumbsup
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03-06-2014, 08:44 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2014 08:57 PM by Diogenes of Mayberry.)
RE: On the Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible
As the OP mentioned in the first post, Judaism was originally henotheistic. El (later merged with Yahweh, the southern god of Judah) was simply the chief god of the Canaanite pantheon, just as Allah was of the Arabic pantheon.

Judaism did not become strictly monotheistic until the deuteronomistic reforms of King Josiah in the 620s BCE. The unfortunate pluralities were just a legacy hold-over that never got edited out. Just more proof of the fluid nature of religion to evolve over time, and it's adherents to totally forget their own religious history.

A quote I used in my book, from Yale OT Professor Collins' book A Short Introduction to the Hebrew Bible:

"In Daniel 7:9 thrones are set up and a white-haired “Ancient of Days” appears, surrounded by thousands of servants. This figure is evidently God. It is surprising, then, when another figure appears “with the clouds of heaven.” In the Hebrew Bible, the figure who rides on the clouds is always YAHWEH, the God of Israel. Yet in Daniel 7 this figure is clearly subordinate to the Ancient of Days. The juxtaposition of two divine figures can be understood against the background of the Canaanite myth. There the high god was El, a venerable figure with a white beard. The young fertility god was Baal, who is called the “rider of the clouds” in the Ugaritic texts. In the Hebrew Bible, YAHWEH usually combines the roles of El and Baal. In Daniel 7, however, they are separated. The influence of the Canaanite mythic tradition is clearly evident in the relationships between the Ancient of Days, the rider of the clouds, and the beasts from the sea."

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03-06-2014, 08:53 PM
RE: On the Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible
(03-06-2014 04:48 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 04:44 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  Then why did they get it wrong?

They wrote what God inspired them to write. If a man thinks he knows better then that is fine. God knows more than Francis Collins.

God knows who the first two humans were who were made in His Image and Likeness. Francis Collins is not God.

There is no evidence for that. There is nothing particularly extraordinary about the literature. The concept of "inspiration" was cooked up many centuries after the texts were written. It's astounding someone like you actually knows almost nothing about those texts. "Inspiration" was not claimed until very very late. James said ALL religious texts , (not just the canon) were "inspired". I see you actually know nothing about your "sacred scripture". There is no "god". The word has no coherent definition. The phrase "god knows" is incoherent. It's an action. Actions require spacetime. Stop talking nonsense.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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