On the Existence of Garage Dragons
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20-08-2015, 06:30 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 06:26 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 05:38 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I am so confused by this thread.

I don't think I have the brain power to handle the heavy stuff. Undecided

But I think a garage dragon would be kinda cool.

The garage dragon part of it, at least, is fairly straightforward. I'll be honest and admit that I don't know what Free and Stevil are discussing at the moment, but the garage dragon, at least, is pretty easy to understand.

If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer.

Actually, I think I do understand the garage dragon as described in your first post. Thumbsup It's the rest of the discussion that has me a bit wobbly.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat

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20-08-2015, 06:32 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 06:30 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 06:26 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  The garage dragon part of it, at least, is fairly straightforward. I'll be honest and admit that I don't know what Free and Stevil are discussing at the moment, but the garage dragon, at least, is pretty easy to understand.

If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer.

Actually, I think I do understand the garage dragon as described in your first post. Thumbsup It's the rest of the discussion that has me a bit wobbly.

I seriously don't blame you. Stevil is mind fucking himself into the abyss of incoherence.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? I am an atheist because it is the natural state of being we are all born into.
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20-08-2015, 06:34 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 06:32 PM)Free Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 06:30 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Actually, I think I do understand the garage dragon as described in your first post. Thumbsup It's the rest of the discussion that has me a bit wobbly.

I seriously don't blame you. Stevil is mind fucking himself into the abyss of incoherence.

Thank you. I feel a little better now. I was really starting to think I was just about too dense to breathe. Sadcryface

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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20-08-2015, 06:35 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 06:30 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Actually, I think I do understand the garage dragon as described in your first post. Thumbsup It's the rest of the discussion that has me a bit wobbly.

Yeah, that'll happen when one of the parties involved is arguing complete incoherence and refuses to answer the simple question that would settle the matter once and for all.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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20-08-2015, 06:43 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 06:30 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Actually, I think I do understand the garage dragon as described in your first post. Thumbsup It's the rest of the discussion that has me a bit wobbly.
The garage dragon is actually quite a good analogy.
Unbeliever's conclusion on it is out of left field. Free's ability to grasp logic is non existent.
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20-08-2015, 06:51 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 06:43 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 06:30 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Actually, I think I do understand the garage dragon as described in your first post. Thumbsup It's the rest of the discussion that has me a bit wobbly.
The garage dragon is actually quite a good analogy.
Unbeliever's conclusion on it is out of left field. Free's ability to grasp logic is non existent.

Says he who refuses to answer the obvious question on the garage dragon issue (because you can't without admitting you are wrong), and who contradicts his position on God Possibly Exists/God Possibly Doesn't Exist issue (because you haven't the first clue how to be intellectually honest.)

You show massive signs of harbouring many theistic characteristics.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? I am an atheist because it is the natural state of being we are all born into.
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20-08-2015, 06:52 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 06:43 PM)Stevil Wrote:  The garage dragon is actually quite a good analogy.
Unbeliever's conclusion on it is out of left field.

You could demonstrate this quite easily by answering the question.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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20-08-2015, 07:09 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 06:24 PM)Free Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 05:55 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Logically yes.

No I'm not

No I'm not

Because I don't know if it is possible or not.

No, I have not stated whether either outcome is possible or not.
I have only stated that there are two logical outcomes.

If you don't know whether or not it is possible that God exists, then how can you make the claim as follows:

Stevil Wrote:There are two outcomes to the god question. Either it is possible for god to exist or it is impossible for god to exist. Two outcomes.

1. You are clearly acknowledging as factual the existence of two possibilities.
2. You are clearly acknowledging as factual two logical outcomes.

Since you are acknowledging the possible logical outcome that God could possibly exist, you are therefore, without any doubt whatsoever, acknowledging that possibility.

You cannot claim ignorance when you acknowledge something as being factual.

An agnostic only makes the claim that he doesn't know if God exists or not, and that is perfectly fine. But that is where the position ends, and it does not apply to possibilities.

As an agnostic, you simply don't know if God exists, but you must accept as possible that he either does exist, or he doesn't. You have no choice but to accept both of those possibilities, since there are no other choices.

You cannot say "I don't know if God's existence is possible" or "I don't know if God's existence is impossible" when you so freely acknowledge these possibilities, otherwise you are in logical contradiction.

You have accepted as possible the existence or non existence of God, and that's a fact.

I would counter and say really it's still more of an eternal turtles all the way down chain of "unknown" I don't know answers.

It's mainly a continuation of not knowing what is or isn't known for certain. You say it as if it's saying you are Positive it is possible, but it's still abstractly unsure if it's possible.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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20-08-2015, 07:42 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? I am an atheist because it is the natural state of being we are all born into.
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20-08-2015, 07:43 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 07:09 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 06:24 PM)Free Wrote:  If you don't know whether or not it is possible that God exists, then how can you make the claim as follows:


1. You are clearly acknowledging as factual the existence of two possibilities.
2. You are clearly acknowledging as factual two logical outcomes.

Since you are acknowledging the possible logical outcome that God could possibly exist, you are therefore, without any doubt whatsoever, acknowledging that possibility.

You cannot claim ignorance when you acknowledge something as being factual.

An agnostic only makes the claim that he doesn't know if God exists or not, and that is perfectly fine. But that is where the position ends, and it does not apply to possibilities.

As an agnostic, you simply don't know if God exists, but you must accept as possible that he either does exist, or he doesn't. You have no choice but to accept both of those possibilities, since there are no other choices.

You cannot say "I don't know if God's existence is possible" or "I don't know if God's existence is impossible" when you so freely acknowledge these possibilities, otherwise you are in logical contradiction.

You have accepted as possible the existence or non existence of God, and that's a fact.

I would counter and say really it's still more of an eternal turtles all the way down chain of "unknown" I don't know answers.

Well, when he says and admits there are only two logical outcomes/possibilities, and then tries to claim that he doesn't know if either one is possible, then that is an obvious logical contradiction.

Since there are only two possibilities, then one must be possible and the other not possible. One is true, and the other false.

Therefore, he knows that one is true and one is false. He admits that both are possible, but both cannot be impossible or possible at the same time.

Therefore, he is admitting that the existence of God is possible. He cannot deny this any longer, it makes him look like a fool.

I cannot change that. Only he can.

It is what it is.

Huh

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? I am an atheist because it is the natural state of being we are all born into.
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