On the Existence of Garage Dragons
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
20-08-2015, 08:57 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
I have no concept of a garage dragon. I do have proof of dust bunnies.
Na na.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post
20-08-2015, 08:59 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 08:44 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 08:36 PM)Free Wrote:  Your words are etched in stone and time-stamped in the event you try to edit that post.
At what point have I claimed that it is possible for gods to exist?

Right here:

Stevil Wrote:There are two outcomes to the god question: Either it is possible for god to exist or ...

You explicitly stated that there are two outcomes to the god question, and then posited those two outcomes. You specifically used the word "possible" in relation to one of those outcomes when you said "it is possible for god to exist" as one of the two outcomes you posited.

Quote:Did you understand the word "Either" at the front of the sentence?

Yes, it denotes a choice between the two outcomes you posited.

Quote:I have not claimed knowledge of the possibility of the god's existence.

Yes you have. You posited two outcomes, one of which explicitly states that "it is possible that god exists."

Quote:I mean, if I say Either it is possible Free is mentally damaged or Free just lacks basic logic skills I am not saying that I know which one is true. I am not saying that it is possible that Free is mentally damaged.

1. It's not a matter of knowing which one is true.
2. Yes, you are in fact saying it is possible that Free is either mentally damaged, or that Free lacks basic logic skills. You are positing two possibilities. You may not know which one is true, but since you posit no other other options, it is evident that you believe that at least one is true.

And that is exactly how logic works.

Having problems with your computer? Visit our Free Tech Support thread for help!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-08-2015, 09:08 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 08:36 PM)Free Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 08:01 PM)Stevil Wrote:  This isn't my claim though.

Yes ... it ... is.

Stevil Wrote:There are two outcomes to the god question:

Either it is possible for god to exist or it is impossible for god to exist. Two outcomes.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid836717

Your words are etched in stone and time-stamped in the event you try to edit that post.

Quote:I have said there are two logical outcomes,

Stop trying to mince words and back-pedal. We all KNOW what you said.

It's too late. You are completely discredited. The only thing you can do now is admit you were wrong and move on, unless you would much rather perfer to continue either looking like a liar, or looking like a fool.

Take your pick.

Either a god exists or not. 2 possibilities. This is a fact. To accept this fact is not to claim that in our universe it is possible that a god exists.

To say, "I don't know whether or not a something like a god is possible," is not the same as saying "I know that a god is possible."

I'm still not convinced you are even able to understand the difference between these two claims.

1. I believe that god does not exist.

2. I don't believe that god exists.

Do you realize that a person can be a number 2 without being a number 1? Until you can understand this, there's no need to go any further.

Perhaps another scenario might help.

It's theorized by many physicists that our universe came from nothing. We also know that our universe is not infinite, and as far as we can tell, there might be nothing outside our universe. Which brings us to the question of, if there is nothing outside our universe, then is it possible other universes could pop out of the nothing that is outside our universe?

Now I could ask you some questions about your beliefs that you should be able to answer with only a yes or no. You should be able to tell with certainty whether or not you hold a belief, so "I don't know" wouldn't be an appropriate response.

Such as:

Do you believe that other universes are possible?

Do you believe that other universes are impossible?

My answer is "no" on both questions because I don't know whether or not other universes are possible.

Even if you are convinced of one of the 2 choices, can you at least see how someone who is indifferent would have to answer "no" to both questions?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-08-2015, 09:09 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 08:37 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 08:16 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  What is the difference between a garage dragon and no dragon at all?

The concept of a garage dragon.

Having the concept of a garage dragon does not actually make the garage dragon itself any more real.

There is still no way in which the garage dragon can be said to exist. There is still no difference between the garage dragon and no dragon at all.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-08-2015, 09:17 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 09:09 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Having the concept of a garage dragon does not actually make the garage dragon itself any more real.

[Image: Bear_Hug_by_CommodoreElfman.jpg]

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-08-2015, 09:22 PM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 09:08 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 08:36 PM)Free Wrote:  Yes ... it ... is.


http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid836717

Your words are etched in stone and time-stamped in the event you try to edit that post.


Stop trying to mince words and back-pedal. We all KNOW what you said.

It's too late. You are completely discredited. The only thing you can do now is admit you were wrong and move on, unless you would much rather perfer to continue either looking like a liar, or looking like a fool.

Take your pick.

Either a god exists or not. 2 possibilities. This is a fact.

True.

Quote:To accept this fact is not to claim that in our universe it is possible that a god exists.

Yes it is a claim that it is possible that a god exists. Since you said, "Either a god exists or not. 2 possibilities,"

1st Possibility: A god exists.
2nd Possibility: A god does not exist.

That is 2 possibilities, and one of them explicitly states that it is possible that a god exists.

How you cannot understand this is worthy of an award winning mystery novel.

Having problems with your computer? Visit our Free Tech Support thread for help!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-08-2015, 12:56 AM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(20-08-2015 09:22 PM)Free Wrote:  1st Possibility: A god exists.
2nd Possibility: A god does not exist.

That is 2 possibilities, and one of them explicitly states that it is possible that a god exists.
Honestly Free, go take a beginners course in logic, you will learn a lot.

A v B = True

For the above claim to be True only one option needs to be true.

A could be "The sky is green" which is clearly incorrect however
A v B can still be true if B is true

If B is "The sky is blue" then the full claim is correct
"The sky is green" or "The sky is blue" resolves to True because as most of us know the sky is actually blue.

If you have two options which are all encompasing e.g. number marbles in a jar can only be Odd or Even then
A v B = True when A = odd and B = even.
We could even throw something completely wrong in there and the answer is still true. C = Cows produce wine.
A v B v C = True
the extra premise does not invalidate the truth of the claim because only one item needs to be true. A and B are all encompassing so at least on of these has to be true so the answer will be true. We don't know if A is true and we don't know if B is true but we know that A v B = true.

This is basic, basic, basic logic. You would probably learn it on the first day of any introductory logic course. Probably in the first chapter of "Logic for Dummies".

We know that "God's existence is possible" or "god's existence is impossible" is all encompassing even though we don't know which one of the two is correct.
So we can confidently say A v B = True without knowing if A is correct or if B is correct.


Basic, basic, basic logic. A 10 year old could grasp it. Honestly any ten year old without learning deficiencies.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Stevil's post
21-08-2015, 06:58 AM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(21-08-2015 12:56 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 09:22 PM)Free Wrote:  1st Possibility: A god exists.
2nd Possibility: A god does not exist.

That is 2 possibilities, and one of them explicitly states that it is possible that a god exists.

That is 2 possibilities, and one of them explicitly states that it is possible that a god exists.
Honestly Free, go take a beginners course in logic, you will learn a lot.

A v B = True

For the above claim to be True only one option needs to be true.

A could be "The sky is green" which is clearly incorrect however
A v B can still be true if B is true

If B is "The sky is blue" then the full claim is correct
"The sky is green" or "The sky is blue" resolves to True because as most of us know the sky is actually blue.

If you have two options which are all encompasing e.g. number marbles in a jar can only be Odd or Even then
A v B = True when A = odd and B = even.
We could even throw something completely wrong in there and the answer is still true. C = Cows produce wine.
A v B v C = True
the extra premise does not invalidate the truth of the claim because only one item needs to be true. A and B are all encompassing so at least on of these has to be true so the answer will be true. We don't know if A is true and we don't know if B is true but we know that A v B = true.

This is basic, basic, basic logic. You would probably learn it on the first day of any introductory logic course. Probably in the first chapter of "Logic for Dummies".

We know that "God's existence is possible" or "god's existence is impossible" is all encompassing even though we don't know which one of the two is correct.
So we can confidently say A v B = True without knowing if A is correct or if B is correct.


Basic, basic, basic logic. A 10 year old could grasp it. Honestly any ten year old without learning deficiencies.

Let me again show you the obvious error of your ways.

Quote:A V B
For the above claim to be True only one option needs to be true.

A = 1st Possibility: A god exists.
B = 2nd Possibility: A god does not exist.

A v B

For the above claim to be True only one option needs to be true.

Now here are the obvious questions, dummy:

1. Can you show reason why A can possibly be true?
2. Can you show reason why B can possibly be true?

Since you are claiming that either one of them can be true, you must demonstrate with evidence as to WHY either one of them can be true.

You are making the positive claim that either A or B is true. You are therefore required to demonstrate with evidence why that claim is valid.

Now let's fucking see it, dummy.

Smartass

Having problems with your computer? Visit our Free Tech Support thread for help!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-08-2015, 07:30 AM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(21-08-2015 12:56 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(20-08-2015 09:22 PM)Free Wrote:  1st Possibility: A god exists.
2nd Possibility: A god does not exist.

That is 2 possibilities, and one of them explicitly states that it is possible that a god exists.
Honestly Free, go take a beginners course in logic, you will learn a lot.

A v B = True

For the above claim to be True only one option needs to be true.

A could be "The sky is green" which is clearly incorrect however
A v B can still be true if B is true

If B is "The sky is blue" then the full claim is correct
"The sky is green" or "The sky is blue" resolves to True because as most of us know the sky is actually blue.

If you have two options which are all encompasing e.g. number marbles in a jar can only be Odd or Even then
A v B = True when A = odd and B = even.
We could even throw something completely wrong in there and the answer is still true. C = Cows produce wine.
A v B v C = True
the extra premise does not invalidate the truth of the claim because only one item needs to be true. A and B are all encompassing so at least on of these has to be true so the answer will be true. We don't know if A is true and we don't know if B is true but we know that A v B = true.

This is basic, basic, basic logic. You would probably learn it on the first day of any introductory logic course. Probably in the first chapter of "Logic for Dummies".

We know that "God's existence is possible" or "god's existence is impossible" is all encompassing even though we don't know which one of the two is correct.
So we can confidently say A v B = True without knowing if A is correct or if B is correct.


Basic, basic, basic logic. A 10 year old could grasp it. Honestly any ten year old without learning deficiencies.

Sure, but binary logic is only a narrow subset of all constructed logical formalisms.
(delightfully pedantic example: the sky isn't blue - rather, out of all the wavelengths visible to the human eye, it is blue light that is scattered most heavily if illuminated by a G-type star at about 1 AU and at a relatively direct angle; even if we just say it "is" blue, it still doesn't appear so most of the time - there's an awful lot of depth baked into the deceptively simple statement that "the sky is blue")

Of course, what Free doesn't quite understand about truth claims and exclusive propositions is another matter...

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
21-08-2015, 07:34 AM
RE: On the Existence of Garage Dragons
(21-08-2015 06:58 AM)Free Wrote:  
(21-08-2015 12:56 AM)Stevil Wrote:  Honestly Free, go take a beginners course in logic, you will learn a lot.

A v B = True

For the above claim to be True only one option needs to be true.

A could be "The sky is green" which is clearly incorrect however
A v B can still be true if B is true

If B is "The sky is blue" then the full claim is correct
"The sky is green" or "The sky is blue" resolves to True because as most of us know the sky is actually blue.

If you have two options which are all encompasing e.g. number marbles in a jar can only be Odd or Even then
A v B = True when A = odd and B = even.
We could even throw something completely wrong in there and the answer is still true. C = Cows produce wine.
A v B v C = True
the extra premise does not invalidate the truth of the claim because only one item needs to be true. A and B are all encompassing so at least on of these has to be true so the answer will be true. We don't know if A is true and we don't know if B is true but we know that A v B = true.

This is basic, basic, basic logic. You would probably learn it on the first day of any introductory logic course. Probably in the first chapter of "Logic for Dummies".

We know that "God's existence is possible" or "god's existence is impossible" is all encompassing even though we don't know which one of the two is correct.
So we can confidently say A v B = True without knowing if A is correct or if B is correct.


Basic, basic, basic logic. A 10 year old could grasp it. Honestly any ten year old without learning deficiencies.

Let me again show you the obvious error of your ways.

Quote:A V B
For the above claim to be True only one option needs to be true.

A = 1st Possibility: A god exists.
B = 2nd Possibility: A god does not exist.

A v B

For the above claim to be True only one option needs to be true.

Now here are the obvious questions, dummy:

1. Can you show reason why A can possibly be true?
2. Can you show reason why B can possibly be true?

Since you are claiming that either one of them can be true, you must demonstrate with evidence as to WHY either one of them can be true.

You are making the positive claim that either A or B is true. You are therefore required to demonstrate with evidence why that claim is valid.

Now let's fucking see it, dummy.

Smartass

Strict adherence to such obstinacy would leave you a quivering horror at all the various (unfalsifiable!) mythological entities you couldn't definitively disprove and which could be out there. Mindlessly dogmatic agnosticism is not the way any rational person actually goes through life.

That's the point of the damn dragon in the first place.

(all this shit remains real pointless without a working definition of "god", mind)

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes cjlr's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: