On your deathbed...
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07-08-2015, 09:05 AM
RE: On your deathbed...
The essence of that argument is fear. Having been in a few situations where I thought I was going to die, I can tell you I was far too busy working to stay alive to bother with praying at all. My efforts seem to have worked better than prayer.
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07-08-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: On your deathbed...
For the slower, less dramatic deaths (I'm thinking heart failure, respiratory failure...not trauma, acute myocardial infarctions...) think of it more like floating off slowly to sleep. We give you drugs to help with the air hunger and dry secretions. Your consciousness is much lower due to both hypoxia and the drugs. The goal really is to keep you as comfortable as possible. Conversations with the chaplain, if requested, have already taken place and aren't really even possible with an actively dying person - you're just not aware enough of what's going on at that point.

If that's how I go I hope I have a loved one present holding my hand. For some of my little elderly patients that have no family present, I'll hold their hand and sing. Hearing is the last sense to go...

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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07-08-2015, 10:07 AM
RE: On your deathbed...
(07-08-2015 09:30 AM)Nurse Wrote:  For the slower, less dramatic deaths (I'm thinking heart failure, respiratory failure...not trauma, acute myocardial infarctions...) think of it more like floating off slowly to sleep. We give you drugs to help with the air hunger and dry secretions. Your consciousness is much lower due to both hypoxia and the drugs. The goal really is to keep you as comfortable as possible. Conversations with the chaplain, if requested, have already taken place and aren't really even possible with an actively dying person - you're just not aware enough of what's going on at that point.

If that's how I go I hope I have a loved one present holding my hand. For some of my little elderly patients that have no family present, I'll hold their hand and sing. Hearing is the last sense to go...
Once something happened to me. I had very strong pain and I started to feel very, very week. I didn't know at that moment what happened to me but I thought it was something serious. It was a moment I thought that I was going to die. I didn't even care about dying.
I didn't think about my Heavenly Father, I didn't pray. I just was OK with dying.
P.S. I know now what was wrong with me and after the surgery I am just fine.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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07-08-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: On your deathbed...
(07-08-2015 09:30 AM)Nurse Wrote:  For the slower, less dramatic deaths (I'm thinking heart failure, respiratory failure...not trauma, acute myocardial infarctions...) think of it more like floating off slowly to sleep. We give you drugs to help with the air hunger and dry secretions. Your consciousness is much lower due to both hypoxia and the drugs. The goal really is to keep you as comfortable as possible. Conversations with the chaplain, if requested, have already taken place and aren't really even possible with an actively dying person - you're just not aware enough of what's going on at that point.

If that's how I go I hope I have a loved one present holding my hand. For some of my little elderly patients that have no family present, I'll hold their hand and sing. Hearing is the last sense to go...

I'd rather not take the slow trip. Please, Nurse, if you are attending me when I die, just give me a triple shot of the good stuff and flash me while I am still conscious. That way I will die quickly with a smile on my face. Sleepy

I just wanted to let you know that I love you even though you aren't naked right now. Heart
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07-08-2015, 10:32 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2015 11:10 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: On your deathbed...
Having been in combat, and on the receiving end of gunshots, never once did I utter a "please god"..."oh jesus save me"...there are a LOT more atheists in foxholes than you would imagine.

Why a believer would utter "please god" is beyond me anyway, if you believe in god, then you most likely believe he has a plan for you, if that plan is to allow your legs and genitals to be blown off by an IED, then praise jesus, his plan has come to fruition. Embrace it, and if you are dying, again, this is god's plan, don't fight it, in fact you shouldn't even request or allow medical intervention, that is man blocking god's plan. Just die with a smile, you are going to heaven.

For the rational amongst mankind, begging a mythical figure to intervene on our behalf would be childish and disingenuous.

Altho to be fair, When I held my two baby girls (15 mos and 8 mos) and watched them slowly die over a week's time due to Medical "humane dehydration" which was the only thing they have to offer terminally ill children as a way to pass once the G and NG tubes stop working, I did utter quite a few heart wrenching please god don't let my little girl die prayers...of course I was a believer then....so I understand the prayers on behalf of loved ones if you are a believer. of course I refused to believe at the time my little girls dying could be part of some caring god's plan.....my personal death at the time though would have been welcome, any respite from the emotional, spiritual and physical pain ripping my heart out...to bad that wasn't part of "gods will".

So in conclusion, why believers pray is beyond me, when it comes to themselves....wow, I just went off on a ramble, sorry, something got triggered....maybe I need some coffee

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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07-08-2015, 10:33 AM
RE: On your deathbed...
(07-08-2015 10:17 AM)TurkeyBurner Wrote:  
(07-08-2015 09:30 AM)Nurse Wrote:  For the slower, less dramatic deaths (I'm thinking heart failure, respiratory failure...not trauma, acute myocardial infarctions...) think of it more like floating off slowly to sleep. We give you drugs to help with the air hunger and dry secretions. Your consciousness is much lower due to both hypoxia and the drugs. The goal really is to keep you as comfortable as possible. Conversations with the chaplain, if requested, have already taken place and aren't really even possible with an actively dying person - you're just not aware enough of what's going on at that point.

If that's how I go I hope I have a loved one present holding my hand. For some of my little elderly patients that have no family present, I'll hold their hand and sing. Hearing is the last sense to go...

I'd rather not take the slow trip. Please, Nurse, if you are attending me when I die, just give me a triple shot of the good stuff and flash me while I am still conscious. That way I will die quickly with a smile on my face. Sleepy

My great grandfather was 104 yo.....had dinner with the family, sat down in his favorite reclining chair afterwards, turned on the tv, and took a nap....never woke up.....sign me up for that exit.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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07-08-2015, 10:52 AM
RE: On your deathbed...
We have members who are struggling with serious illness on this forum and I just find this thread a tad bit insensitive. I know you probably didn't mean it that way, biker, but it is. Sorry.
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07-08-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: On your deathbed...
(07-08-2015 08:13 AM)natachan Wrote:  I doubt it. I'm taking myself out when the time comes. Get a terminal cancer diagnosis or something of the sort and I'm checking out. Fuck that. As such I don't think a god will be involved with that.

Not me. My son's mom got a terminal diagnosis of six months -- breast cancer metastasized, multiple sites -- and she beat it.

They'll have to pry life from my cold, dead hands. Even living in pain is a sweet sensation.
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07-08-2015, 12:09 PM
RE: On your deathbed...
(07-08-2015 10:52 AM)jennybee Wrote:  We have members who are struggling with serious illness on this forum and I just find this thread a tad bit insensitive. I know you probably didn't mean it that way, biker, but it is. Sorry.

goodwithoutgod Wrote:Altho to be fair, When I held my two baby girls (15 mos and 8 mos) and watched them slowly die over a week's time due to Medical "humane dehydration" which was the only thing they have to offer terminally ill children as a way to pass once the G and NG tubes stop working, I did utter quite a few heart wrenching please god don't let my little girl die prayers...of course I was a believer then....so I understand the prayers on behalf of loved ones if you are a believer. of course I refused to believe at the time my little girls dying could be part of some caring god's plan.....my personal death at the time though would have been welcome, any respite from the emotional, spiritual and physical pain ripping my heart out...to bad that wasn't part of "gods will".

My dumb comments aside, after reading both of these, and some of the other more serious responses to this thread, I feel that while the tone of some of our responses have been insensitive to the situations of others in the forum, the discussion itself is enlightening and useful. In fact, one of the very situations that I am struggling with right now is how to handle the discussion of death. That is both my own internal process as well as how to handle it with my children. All of my experiences of death so far were while under the cloud of belief. My grandmother, with whom I am very close, is not likely to live much longer. I have no idea how to talk to my children about death or how to navigate the interactions with ignorant, but well meaning family members who will be there to push their belief in an afterlife on them while they are vulnerable to their emotions.

I would never ask anyone on this forum to do share about something so personal. However, I place considerable value on the wisdom of those that have faced or are currently facing death themselves as an atheist.

I would hope this thread could continue, but with an understanding of the situations of many on this board in mind.

Thanks, Jenny, for the reality check.

I just wanted to let you know that I love you even though you aren't naked right now. Heart
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07-08-2015, 12:21 PM
RE: On your deathbed...
(07-08-2015 10:52 AM)jennybee Wrote:  We have members who are struggling with serious illness on this forum and I just find this thread a tad bit insensitive. I know you probably didn't mean it that way, biker, but it is. Sorry.

We are all facing death...some sooner than others. Death is discussed here from time to time as it is a part of life. Hiding from the topic doesn't make it go away.

As for deathbed conversions - my dad made it clear when he was in hospice and then a facility that he didn't want any preachers or prayers. His wishes were respected. His lady friend said that his last word was "John", his brother's name. He wasn't calling out to a god.

I faced cancer without even considering prayer. Lots of people said they were praying for me...okay, thanks, whatever. I will search for a good medical team. My mortality slapped me right in the face but I knew it was time to put on my big girl panties and fight back.

Besides, if I was going to pray about it, it didn't make sense to pray to the entity that (following the 'logic') gave me cancer to begin with.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat

Are my Chakras on straight?
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