Once Upon A Time...when we were civil
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01-09-2015, 04:45 AM
RE: Once Upon A Time...when we were civil
(01-09-2015 04:41 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  I think people should be more open to the idea that their immediate perception of someones character is not inherently accurate, and that whether it is accurate or not it is still mostly irrelevant and harmful to conjecture on it along side discussing something.

This is spot on.
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01-09-2015, 04:53 AM
RE: Once Upon A Time...when we were civil
(01-09-2015 04:45 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-09-2015 04:41 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  I think people should be more open to the idea that their immediate perception of someones character is not inherently accurate, and that whether it is accurate or not it is still mostly irrelevant and harmful to conjecture on it along side discussing something.

This is spot on.

While it is a good point, please don't forget that it simply no longer applies to you, you've already given plenty for us to form our very well founded opinions of you.

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01-09-2015, 05:17 AM
RE: Once Upon A Time...when we were civil
(01-09-2015 03:41 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Bed honest Heywood. Just for once!

I'm... gonna take a pass on that.

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01-09-2015, 06:10 AM
RE: Once Upon A Time...when we were civil
(01-09-2015 05:17 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(01-09-2015 03:41 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Bed honest Heywood. Just for once!

I'm... gonna take a pass on that.

Noticed that one, too. Decided to leave it alone.

And I shudder to say this, but I think Gilgamesh makes an excellent set of points. However, I also think we do a lot better job of discriminating between those committing the "villainy" he describes and those who are simply confused, or who are unaccustomed to having a trusted source of information questioned, or who otherwise have honest intentions but incorrect information.

An honest reading of the board, I think, will show that we rarely have a problem with dissent, but only with those who demonstrate a willful and deliberate choice to participate in the villainy described above. We give even the craziest of opinions a chance to demonstrate their ideas using honest methodologies, and we let people who're appearing to be dishonest in their approach know about it so they can stop before they are banned or labeled a troll.

As pointed out, the people who complain so loudly about their mistreatment have shown they are CLEARLY trolls by repeated villainy prior to the beginning of the "let's now whine about how badly I'm treated" approach. Only the fact that we don't ban everyone who deserves it, that we give responses to those who have already shown they don't respect atheists and are willing to misrepresent our positions and/or mock us, etc, allows the appearance of demonization.

So, again, with respect: I think you overstate the case. Those who have been identified as being something more than the product of human folly are treated (rightly) as demons, and only the fact that we tolerate the demons allows there to be the appearance of a battle between the main body of members and the demons (one of whose favorite tactics is to whine about persecution, ironically). People who show intellectual honesty, even if misinformed, are treated with kid gloves by and large.

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01-09-2015, 07:45 AM
RE: Once Upon A Time...when we were civil
(01-09-2015 04:41 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  On a discussion board the greatest act of villainy one can achieve is the villainy of intellectual dishonesty. To be intellectually dishonest basically means one knowingly assign more worth to preserving ones current convictions, and subsequently ego, than to be of convictions that more accurately reflect objective reality, but contradict the current one. People exchange ideas to seek the closest position to truth, so to be dishonest is unfair to any who one would engage in discussion.

It's just unfortunate that people sooner perceive villainous intellectual dishonesty, rather than innocent human folly. Once oneself is convinced that the other is a demon, it is of course right to demonise the other; justifiably so, for a wicked person deserves nothing less than contempt.

I think people should be more open to the idea that their immediate perception of someones character is not inherently accurate, and that whether it is accurate or not it is still mostly irrelevant and harmful to conjecture on it along side discussing something.

"Villainy". "Demon". "Wicked". Just the type of measured, non-evocative language that helps "civil" discussion along.

Well-intentioned tone policing veers ever so effortlessly into pure concern trolling...

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01-09-2015, 08:21 AM
RE: Once Upon A Time...when we were civil
(01-09-2015 04:41 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  I think people should be more open to the idea that their immediate perception of someones character is not inherently accurate, and that whether it is accurate or not it is still mostly irrelevant and harmful to conjecture on it along side discussing something.

I think most people here are perfectly prepared to change their judgement of someone. If they just continue to behave like a prat though, then they continue to get the prat treatment.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-09-2015, 08:24 AM
RE: Once Upon A Time...when we were civil
I took the OP as more specific to this forum. I've certainly noticed a change over time to more name calling and stereotyping in the discourse in the forums here.

Maybe it is the political environment in the US and the world but one of the biggest examples I see in this forum that occurs right now is the label of conservative/liberal being tossed around with impunity while other labels are challenged (e.g. atheist).

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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01-09-2015, 08:34 AM
RE: Once Upon A Time...when we were civil
I was pretty respectful during my debating days; likewise, so were 90% of those that debated me.

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01-09-2015, 08:57 AM
RE: Once Upon A Time...when we were civil
Never took it to be about this forum. One thing I do know about nostalgia; it is always wrong. Probability 1.

(01-09-2015 08:34 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I was pretty respectful during my debating days; likewise, so were 90% of those that debated me.

That's because you're a pussy.
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01-09-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: Once Upon A Time...when we were civil
(01-09-2015 08:57 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Never took it to be about this forum. One thing I do know about nostalgia; it is always wrong. Probability 1.

(01-09-2015 08:34 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  I was pretty respectful during my debating days; likewise, so were 90% of those that debated me.

That's because you're a pussy.
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